please help, poor gunnery

[Clutz]

From the beginning (8 months now) gunnery has shown almost no improvement for me. My hit % is about 2 or 3. That's bad. I struggle so with it. Problem is, I feel that I understand the amount of lead required, convergence and such. I have practiced it all very much.

Maybe it's a sorry excuse, but I blame it on Internet lag. I always have. And the frustrating thing is, that I'm not really convinced it is lag, I still always work with convergence and lead. And still, I never get any better.

I have read in the BB someone may say something like, "well, on his FE he sees you at 400 and on your FE you see him at 600". Now if this is true, it seems to me learning lead, and setting convergence to anything in particular, would be pointless. I have gone on some "join" sorties and watched many films posted on the BB, and it seems to me that I see really good pilots take the same shots I do and boom, kill in an instant.

I have been in fights where I start shooting at 400, continue shooting at 200, continue shooting at 100 and continue shooting at 0 with the plane filling up my screen, unloading every single round I have into the plane and not as much as an aileron falls off. I don't know what to do more than this to get a kill.

But what gets me is, if its Internet lag, it sure doesn't seem to affect how easily I get shot down. It's usually just pow pow and I get blown up. Very few of my kills send the plane down with just a few shots. Most of my kills take some time to show up cause I only got some pings on the plane. What am I doing or thinking that is wrong? Am I wrong in thinking my bad guns could be, or is, Internet issues?

And then there is the computer. How much does the quality of a computer have to do with gunnery? My computer is probably better than average. How much does FPS have to do with it all? I have all the right tweaks and pretty good frame rates. But would FPS around 45 in a furball make my guns not work? Or am I back to Internet lag as my problem?

As soon as I get a chance I'm going to change Internet service, and I am going to build a new conroe computer. I am about to spend about 3,000 to try and make my rubber bullets go away.  I sure hope it helps.

In conclusion, I figure it is either Internet lag, my computer, or my skill. Or maybe all of the above. I just wish I knew which one it was more of, so I could focus on that one.  

I'm sorry for the whiny boy, I blame it on anything but myself, blah blah blah stuff in this post. I really don't mean it to sound this way. I am just trying to figure all this out and would like some help and some ideas please.

Thank you very very much, Clutz

[zorstorer]

Even with lag what you see is what you need to shoot at.  Then your front end will send the hits to the server then tell his front end that he has been shot.

One thing that really helped me was to turn of tracers...sounds odd but it helped me

Too many people try to "walk" their shots onto the target when using tracers.  If you have them off you start to develope mental images of what the enemy plane needs to look like to hit at any given attack profile.

Also I usually find myself shooting at much closer ranges than the default conv. settings so I have them all pulled in to around 250, even shorter for the hurri mk1.

Hope this helps a bit

[humble]

and post it here. Successful gunnery starts with what you do before you pull the trigger. If everything else is right then all you do is pull the trigger at the right time:). However if your fundementally unsound setting up the shot then you wont hit. Without seeing film i'm guessing here but i'd bet your never actually saddled up but shooting behind the target. fire in front of the target and let him fly into the bullet stream...(just speculating).

[AWwrgwy]

I have the same problem but I know it's not lag or my computer.  I'm a reeealy bad shot.  I can miss from dead 6 @ 100 yards.  My favorite is to come diving in on an unsuspecting nme, just screaming in, start firing @ 400 all the way thru, and get 1 ping.

I'd say, go off-line, load up unlimited ammo, and practice on drones.  I miss there too but maybe it'll work better for you.


wrngway

[BaldEagl]

First I would say it's unlikely to be your computer.  I'm still running an ancient machine by current standards (650 meg PIII, 64 Meg G-Force graphics, .5 Gig RAM).  I usually run around 35-40 fps and have no problems hitting.  In very active areas I'm still on target with fps at 20-25, sometimes even lower.

I doubt it's Internet lag.  Until a few years ago I was on dial-up.  I'm now on cable.  There was no appreciable improvement in game-play.

As to skill try this:  Turn your tracers on.  Set your guns to D650 (.50 cal or larger, D400 or less for .303 and 7.9mm).  Aim slightly above your target no matter the distance.  Fire in short bursts using your tracers to adjust lift until you see them hitting then hold the trigger down.  

Go practice against the off-line drones.  First practice pure pursuit, then lead pusuit and finally snapshots from varying distances.  If you want to have a little more fun try a rolling scissors type manouver around them taking snapshots as they present themselves.

One last thing you can try is using about 50% zoom but I only recommend it if the target is moving in a straight line in front of you without manouvering.

Hope that helps.

[Blagard]

I think you need to practice off line with drones a bit. Don't just shoot from the six, try side and rear quarter attacks as well.

I think you should leave tracers on until you get a better "feel" for where your ammo is going.

Also shoot in short bursts only. when the burst you fire hits, you will know what the picture looked like and get feeback into your "grey matter" to do the same again.

One final point, the drones fly a bit slow so any lead you learn may need increasing online if the enemy is flying faster (they often are!).

[Schatzi]

Internet connection (less) and speed of the machine you run AH on, ie graphics settings and smoothness of the picture (more) do certainly have an effect on your gunnery.

[lagger86]

I've read the term "double your lead" and latley I've been trying this. I've actually shot a few planes down recently(yes it's true) at high speed and angles that I have never had any success with before. I am by no means a good shot, but reading so many different posts and using the information provided by people that are far better than I,  I am making some progress in my gunnery. My hit% is still terrible, but I waste alot of bullets doing stupid things non combat related. I do realize now though that I wasn't leading my targets properly(though I still misjudge more often than not).

[FBplmmr]

my aim is poor as well but it does go up gradually when I have tracers turned off,  If I turn em on it slowly declines.


If I havent played in a few weeks (like now) its really poor again and is slowly going back up.

Its probably very low yet but when I had it up to 9% I felt like I was doing pretty  well, then after 3 weeks of not playing it was down to 2 % =(


not sure if the tracers make me lag a little or I just cant see if Im hitting with em.

I fly the same plane usually (hellcat) and set all my convergence to 275.. I find dead 6 shots painfully hard as I have poor vision but if they start to climb or turn ...BINGO!!!

[Schatzi]

Clutz,

holler at me when you see me online. Ill play target drone for a bit in the TA. Aside from bad FR or warpings, gunnery is really just practice.

And awareness of the speeds and angles and gun types involved. I remember not so long ago, a Vet asked me for help with shooting... and all he did for a while was follow me around in the TA as I was teaching a noob, his LCG on. Just *looking* at the angles and leads involved. After I was done with my lesson, I "upped the ante"... instead of slowly "TnB" my Hog, I went for a little speed and played the very same game at 300 mph plus. The vet in question said WHOA - leads he needed to pull had over doubled!



And another thing: You might want to consider your convergence settings and the range youre firing at. If you tend to shoot a lot "outside" your convergence range, youll end up having a lot of your bullets miss - same goes for long range shooting due to dispersion.



This is just a simple graphic, but I hope it shows you what Im talking about.

[Kuhn]

If you would like to get an idea of how long it takes a round to reach a target, shoot at the ground or water at different distances and get a feel for bullet travel time. You might be suprised at how long it really takes your lead to travel 400 yards. 400 yards x 3 = 1200ft altimeter.

When I was having trouble with leading a target, some one told me to at least double the lead i was using. It did have some results. Now if I could just get better at me saddled up six shots......

[Softail]

From one bad shot to another......

Ask a trainer to "fly" with you and help you.  If you are bullheaded and stubborn and want to do it on your own (like I am ;-) )  this is what helped me.  I am getting better (little by little)....getting more kills in the MA.

Turn on the LCS (Lead Computed Gunsight) and go to the TA.

Pick one plane... and one gun setup.   Ie P-51B  4x50 Cal.

When you ctrl-tab on a friendly and select him/her/it a set of crosshairs will appear floating around the plane....this is where you should aim.

ask someone if you can follow them around...not shoot at them.  Most people won't object or care...as long as they are not actively engaged with a trainer or another target and you are NOT shooting at them... they can fly about their business while you follow them.   I like doing this over drones because they (the piloted targets) move "around."   Drones fly the same circle...over and over and over again.  I can hit the drones....its the real planes I have a problem with.  They tend to move as I approach them. ;-(    

Exercise One.   Train my brain to recognize where the LCS says I should aim while following (NOT SHOOTING AT) other planes in the TA.   This gives me a visual cue as to where I should be aiming in various scenarios.    Make mental notes, get the feel ... the leads are greater than you think.  I picked this over "turning off my tracers" because with tracers off....you have no clue where your bullets went.   The brain needs feed back to correct a physical action.  Just imagine trying to throw a ball to a buddy....but the moment you threw it...it disappeared and you never saw where it landed.  Only if he reached up and caught it or not.  It would be very hard to learn how hard/soft/up/down/left or right you needed to throw it in order to get it to him.


Exercise Two:  Turn the LCS off.....and merge onto targets....saddle up on them and get into a shooting solution...then hit cntr- tab.    Are the crosshairs in the middle of your sight?   yes...good.  No...make note of position.  Break off and do it again.  Until they match up more often than not.

Exercise Three:  Ask some to engage you in a fight and see if you are getting more hits.   Since you cant shot anyone down in TA...its all about the number of hit sprites.  

Rinse and repeat until you get it down.      Once you are comfortable with one plane and gun....move on to the next.

Just a crazy idea....its working for me.... your milage may vary.

Softail

[HomeBoy]

Not crazy at all!

I've been doing something similar myself and it is really helping.  You offer some great tips.  I hadn't thought about turning off LCS and back on when ready to fire.  I'll have to start doing that.

I'm trying to do a half hour or so a day on this as my ole brain needs lots of retraining!

! Softail

-hb

[shooter1cac]

Turn off your tracers...and get close.

[Clutz]

These are all good ideas you guys,and gal have posted, and I am going to review, study, and practice them all. I just can't say enough about what it means to me you have all taken the time to help out. That means a lot more to me than learning to shoot my guns. It really does. And Schatzi, I have read at least a couple of times in the BB you offer to be the ping pong machine   in the TA to help someone out with their gunnery, and that is very very nice of you.

I feel a bit bad for making another "help my gunnery" thread when there is already one currently running and so many others besides these current two. My question was a little bit different and I was trying not to hi-jack that other thread. I kind of wish I hadn't started a new thread now.  Thank you for your patience with me.  Also, I guess I made a new thread because I am trying to find a way to think about this gunnery problem I have in a "new light" so to speak. The "old light" so to speak, just hasn't worked out very well for me so far!    It's just that in my mind, I keep thinking there is some sort of a "magic point" of correlation between the built in flight/gun simulation and the digital information used to make it all work together, that I am not getting the hang of.  

Anyway, as per humbles suggestion  (my hero), I am going to try and post my first film on the BB! This may be a bad thing cause you all may get to the point you are saying to yourselves, OH NO! not this guy again!

This is the best film I could come up with that shows some of my frustration. Its an old film and I have since learned to use my rudders to move my nose around a little bit on a shot. Also, I am a much better pilot now and don't waste ammo like I did back then. It just seems to me that some of my cannon rounds should have landed and made him go poof. Would you guys mind taking a look at this for me please

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1006_1168982572_film6a_0100.ahf

Thank you thank you, Clutz