Need Engine Help

[storch]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
After having to help my wife shop all day (I did buy me some new sockets universals and extensions)

I finally got around to the compression test

Here's the result

Cyl    /    1st Compression  /  max compression

1     /      90               /             120
2    /       90              /              123
3      /     89               /             119
4     /      89              /              121
5     /      94               /          149
6     /      120             /              154


I'm not sure how to read these as 5 and 6 are in limits according to my haynes manual and there shouldn't be more than 30 PSI varience between them.

Keep in mind this is an inline 6 and the problem cylinder is the no. 1.  No. 6 is all the way in the back.

I look for 10% spread.  If that were my engine it would already be out and on it's way to to a reputable engine rebuilder.  but that's just me.

[culero]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
snip
Anyone know if you can replace vacume lines with simular diameter rubber hose?

As along as it has a seal

Yeah, take a sample of the tube and buy hose it fits.

[lazs2]

I was sure I mentioned that a compression tester was cheap?

While the head is off I would run it down to the local rebuilder and have them do a valve job on it and check it for warpage..  a big ol six head has a lot of room to warp.. they will probly have to surface it.   still fairly cheap.

lazs

[Gunslinger]

I think I found the problem, this looks to me like it would be the "money shot"



The valve on the left that's covered in oil looks nothing like the valve to the right of it.  The one on the left is for the no. 1 cyl

It was mentioned in another forum that I'm posting in that it's probably a valve guide seal.....It looks to me like he nailed it.  

Laz, again i'm ignorant here, but I'm assuming a "valve job" would replace that seal?

The gasket doesn't appear to have any damage at all on it.

I'm uploading pics of the cylinders now.

[Gunslinger]

I'll have some better shots once my other camera is charged.  This one doesn't have a working display window so It's hard to guess what the picture is off.

[Coshy]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I think I found the problem, this looks to me like it would be the "money shot"



The valve on the left that's covered in oil looks nothing like the valve to the right of it.  The one on the left is for the no. 1 cyl

It was mentioned in another forum that I'm posting in that it's probably a valve guide seal.....It looks to me like he nailed it.  

Laz, again i'm ignorant here, but I'm assuming a "valve job" would replace that seal?

The gasket doesn't appear to have any damage at all on it.

I'm uploading pics of the cylinders now.

I'd say you have bad valve seals, but that still doesn't explain how the oil is getting into your coolant (unless I've skimmed over it).

In order for oil to get into the radiator one of 4 things has to happen:
1. Block is cracked
2. Head gasket is blown
3, Head is cracked/warped
4. Your idiot (ex)wife decides to 'top off' the oil and dumps it into the radiator (had it happen to me, fortunately it was HER car LOL)

I'm not a pro, but oil leaking into an intake runner from a bad valve seal won't get into your coolant system and really isnt a incredibly major problem, unless its severe oil leakage.

A valve job should replace the valve guide seals, be sure to ask exactly what will be replaced, machined and reused.

I just got a tooth pulled and am on some verrrrrry good pain killers, so I may be completely missing something, if so, disregard this post.

[Gunslinger]

Thanks Coshy,

I'm not sure now if I had a major oil leak into my coolant system.  I know it had some as it was all foamy but inside the block itself the coolant looked ok.  It might have been just real rusty, but I'm not sure.  I am thinking if I just flushed the system It'd be good for another year.  

Currently I'm trying to figure out why my no.1 cylinder is missing and I'm hopeing this is the problem.

Hope  your mouth feels better, I hate getting teeth pulled.

[Coshy]

Re: vacuum hoses

Sometimes the preformed 'hard' lines are there because the vaccum would suck shut regular hose.

I had this exact problem when I replaced the 4.9 in my truck. I broke a whole handful of those brittle plastic hard lines. I was fortunate to have my father-in law helping me, we fabricated lines from similar diamater steel brake/fuel lines and used regular rubber hose just at the ends.

I'd say go with the regular hose, just be aware that rough running, perhaps some surging and other relatively minor ailments may be due to a hose being sucked shut.

[Coshy]

Here I go spamming the forum ...

Compression check: 5 & 6 looked a little wonky to me, but if they are within the range allowed then that eliminates a cracked cylinder wall. 5 & 6 being high could mean there was water or oil in the combustion chamber (they wont compress like air does and will give a higher reading). From the pic (I think its #5 cyl), the cylinder wall looks a bit rusty and the top of the piston has some yellow/whitish residue, which isnt seen on any of the other cylinders, possibly meaning water is entering from somewhere.

From the pics of the cylinders, especially evident in the middle pic, I am seeing that your water tubes/tunnels/whatever the technical name is are nearly plugged with residue. Those are the triangular ones at the bottom of the pic. It looks like oil/water foamy crud, but it could be excessive scale or sediment. Whatever it is, its not good.

Also from the pics of your radiator & cap, oil filler cap, PCV valve and water pump you are definately getting oil into your water, and some water into your oil (oil filler cap & PCV valve).

I'd keep digging a little deeper, a bad valve guide seal is bad, but I think the oil/water mixing is your biggest threat.

Before you start reassembly, you might want to wait for other opinions, it be a pain in the bellybutton to put it all back together and find out you have more things to check.

I so wish I was in Tx, I have the next 4 days off and I love digging into stuff like this!

Thanks for the well wishes, the dentist liked me and I got some good drugs.

[Gunslinger]

Here's my theory on the compression check results.

Upon closer examination of my valves the no. 6 was bad as well.  


Her'e's a good one:



Here's the known bad no.1 cyl



Here's the no. 6 cyl  (not as bad as no. 1 but oily none the less)


When I did the compression check the thing was in the drivway and thus putting the no.6 at the lowest point.(my driveway slants that way)  It got a little more oil than the other cylinders.  That's also why it got a bunch of coolant in it when I pulled the head.

[Gunslinger]

The resident expert over at the jeep forum (this guy actually nailed the problem on page 2 of the 4 page thread) says that a valve job on this would just put excessive wear on the head and to just replace the seals.

What do you resident subject matter experts think?


here's his exact words:

Well Santone the valve jobs are simply put...excessive WEAR on both the valves and the head! The grinding thins out both for no reason. If the valves are working I never have seen a need to grind them down and have them seated deeper in the head.

[Gunslinger]

This kinda worked out well as the head gasket kit includes all the valve seals as well.

anyone have any info on how the seals are put in the guides.  I see spring but they seem to be "glued" in?

The haynes manual isn't helping.

[GtoRA2]

I think you still need to check the head out for warpage, that really does look like water in the oil, I would bet your gasket was bad and replacing it will fix that, but if its a warped head, you will be doing this all again.

It make sense to have it checked out while its off.

[lazs2]

oddly... leaking valve seals will give you a higher compression on a check..  to show you how that works you need only squirt a an oz of oil into one of the low compression cyls. and try the test again.

I'm still guessing blown head gasket.. probly due to a warped head.

lazs

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by lazs2
oddly... leaking valve seals will give you a higher compression on a check..  to show you how that works you need only squirt a an oz of oil into one of the low compression cyls. and try the test again.

I'm still guessing blown head gasket.. probly due to a warped head.

lazs

laz do you know how the seals are supposed to go in the guides.  The one I pulled allready looked glued it as I'm still digging peices of the old seal out.  There's not much room for the new one.

Also,

anyone know if these kits include new springs (for the seals)  it would seem sill to up the old one back on there

If it's a warped head I'm sunk.  I can't afford a new one right now.