Author Topic: Flame!!! check 6  (Read 425 times)

Offline Flame 2 the boy

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 105
Flame!!! check 6
« on: January 18, 2007, 06:44:42 AM »
hey guys ...im having a few issues about dogfighting. It seems when im on someone elses six i do fine nd i can aim well. But when i get a check 6 call, i can almost never shake the guy no matter what i try. So i usually just try to dodge him long enough for someone else to shoot him off.

Any got a few tips to throw a bogie off my tail. (i usually fly a seafire)

THX
flameboy

Offline Spatula

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1486
Flame!!! check 6
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2007, 02:50:23 PM »
I'll read between the lines of your post, and assume you mean "how do i shake someone from my six, who is roughly equal in speed with you and i don't have the room to reverse on him". I say this because anything other scenario is not nearly as dangerous. For example if someone's on your six but carrying 100MPH+ extra speed over you, then dislodging him is relatively easy and fairly safe (assuming you have speed to maneuver yourself). A simple break-turn, scissors, or a barrel roll defense works a treat and the latter two may even give you a counter opportunity. If they're on your six but significantly slower than you, then a spiral climb and/or rope type of maneuver could work well too. If you have enough room to reverse, you can often meet the bandit head-on and force a turning fight where you should be slower and will easily win angles on a bandit which is too fast if he tries to turn with you.

Ok, the real problem here is a bandit who is "saddled up". And the real answer is not to let them there in the first place. Seriously. Once they saddled up you will have limited chances for success. If they're a n00b, then you may stand a chance with some radical maneuvering, but if they have some AH experience, then more than likely your death warrant is already signed and delivered unless you can simply out-run them (aka run away). Improve your "SA" (situational awareness) and you will not have to worry about this situation so much.

So what maneuver could you try when someone is "saddled up" ? Well its not just a maneuver, its a whole strategy. Your aircraft model vs theirs is important here too, as is how much alt you have to play with, and what friendly support you may have around too.

The simplest case is you both have the same a/c or models which are very close in performance. The goal is to claw back some angles (eg force them off your 180 deg position) and hopefully while doing so create snapshot opportunities or force a complete overshoot. You can try a flat-scissors or a series of constantly changing plane barrel rolls. Remember to chop back the throttle as required and pop out flaps etc and skid with rudder to try create a speed differential which will progressively make it harder and harder for them to stay with you due to them getting out of phase with your turns etc. Look for a opportunities for snapshots and take em when you can. Any hits at this point can have important psychological impact on your opponent and/or may even damage or kill them. Eventually you become so out of phase that it will start to turn closer and closer into HO passes. At this point you have pretty much successfully taken back all your lost angles and are now on a more neutral footing and a more even fight can ensue. If you're in an F4-U then you can even drop the landing gear to help force an overshoot.

Other options are, if you're in a faster a/c, is to simply "tactically reposition" eg run away. You wont win any medals for bravery but you will have survived if nothing else. You can combine this with a reposition yourself closer to friendly aircraft who may well join in and save your bacon, or to some other form of support a carrier or feild ack (aka "ack hugging"). Now these aren't glamorous options and people may hassle ya on chnl 200 for ack running or simply running...

If you have some alt to play with there are a couple of other options. 1. the simple dive and zoom; 2. the spiral dive. If your opponent is in a slow a/c and your in a fast and heavier one. Then a simple dive to the deck can yeild good results against zekes, ki84s, N1k's 109s, and P38s. They cant dive very well, and if you time it right you can get them to commit to a dive they cant pull out off in time. Timing is everything. Or simply zoom up high, hammerhead over and pop em when their slower crate doesnt have the momentum to climb up to you. The 2nd option is a spiral dive. This is simply to enter a tight high-G spiral dive with throttle chopped 100% and flaps, gear, rudder skid, kitchen sink all out. If your opponent tries to follow and is less carefull in his speed control he will simply pop out in front of you as he wont be able to turn as tight as you let alone pull any lead to get a shot. You may even cause them to black out. The world is your oyster then.

Defensive moves from a saddled up position are at best desperate measures and you just hoping you can catch the other guy out, but you'd be suprise how often you actually can tho :)

Good luck.
Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assault Group

Offline titanic3

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4235
Flame!!! check 6
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2007, 03:04:26 PM »
seafire huh? can't help u there bud, but if fly a 109G14, usually i press autopilot, and run away if i have faster speed. when i get to 2k, i turn and go HO. my 10's 2x 20mm and 30mm solve the problem XD

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Flame!!! check 6
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 03:52:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by titanic3
seafire huh? can't help u there bud, but if fly a 109G14, usually i press autopilot, and run away if i have faster speed. when i get to 2k, i turn and go HO. my 10's 2x 20mm and 30mm solve the problem XD



Ahhh...the tactics of a skilless dweeb.  die much?



ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline trotter

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 817
Flame!!! check 6
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 05:07:16 PM »
flame, if you're flying a seafire, there's a good chance that whoever is saddled up won't be able to turn with you. Anything other than a hurricane, spit 5, spit 1, another seafire (obviously), fm2, zero, 109e4, maybe one other plane that I'm forgetting....won't be able to match you in a sustained low speed turn fight. So, assuming you have some speed to manuever, it's just a matter of rolling, pulling the stick, and hoping his shot at your canopy misses. If it's not a plane that can turn with you, and it's a decent pilot, you won't have a saddled bogey anymore.

That's just a very simple way of looking at it...depending on the bogey's speed, your speed, presence of other planes in the area, etc, there are other options. Just don't be afraid to embrace the turning capability of the seafire.

Offline Patches1

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 668
Recommendation:
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2007, 09:34:54 AM »
Ask Schatzi for a date and let her lure you into the Training Arena! Take my word, Sir, you'll have the most memorable Date you've ever had!

Good Luck!



Patches
"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, General, USMC

Offline Schatzi

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5729
      • http://www.slowcat.de
Re: Recommendation:
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2007, 10:45:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Patches1
Ask Schatzi for a date and let her lure you into the Training Arena! Take my word, Sir, you'll have the most memorable Date you've ever had!

Good Luck!
 


:lol

Ill take this as compliment Patches :D. Thank you.




Flameboy: Spatula pretty much summed it up already.

Do not let the guy saddle up in the first place!

Now Im well aware that isnt really helpful at first. But let me get into this a little further. The key problem in that case is: Notice the bogey maneuvering into a spot behind you *before* he actually does it. You mentioned getting six calls: Usually, when getting a six call for an opponent, its already way too late.

The actual problem is Situational Awareness. The knowledge of what is going on around you, whos in the area (foe AND friend!), their rough E states and what they are currently doing. "The only time you should look ahead when in a fight is to pull the trigger". This is even more true when youre trailing a bandit - do not get target fixated!


This brings me to yet another very important thing: Your views!

Ill simply assume that you are using a Joystick with a 8-way hatswitch for the time being. (In case youre flying with mouse, pretty much the same would be true, only that you need to use the numpad to look around).

Make sure your hatswitch is mapped to offer you all 8 view directions, including the no-input default look forward. Then have a button on your Joystick mapped to your "look up" view - make sure it is operable at the same time then your hatswitch! You need to be able to combine the two... this will give you a total of 18 view directions. Have the head positions adjusted for maximum visibility on all of those. More on adjusting your views can be found here.
Check this thread regarding an "over the nose" view.


Youre welcome to ask any of the Trainers for help regarding evasive moves and tactics. You can contact us through email or through our Homepage
21 is only half the truth.