Author Topic: bombs exploding when shot (Read 1454 times)

Wes14 · « **on:** January 20, 2007, 11:04:15 AM »

this may have been though of but u know that certain A/c can hold bombs on the wings,isnt it true in r/l that if the bomb was hit by a bullet it would explode,taking the plane with it?.

Benny Moore · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2007, 11:06:38 AM »

Not necessarily. I don't know about different kinds of bombs, but many require very specific conditions to be met in order to detonate. It's probably even harder to blow up a bomb than to light up a fuel tank.

Wes14 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2007, 11:08:32 AM »

i was thinking under the assumption that most ww2 bombs worked off of impack and if a bullet hit it right it would explode

RAIDER14 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2007, 12:22:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wes14
i was thinking under the assumption that most ww2 bombs worked off of impack and if a bullet hit it right it would explode

I think they used barometric fuses

Hornet33 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2007, 05:28:37 PM »

The odds of a bullet or cannon round actually doing enough damage to a hardend steel bomb case to actually make it explode are about a million to one and that's being generous with the odds.

Benny Moore · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2007, 05:52:42 PM »

Again, I'm no expert, but I would guess that a bullet - any type of bullet - would be more likely to permanently disable the bomb rather than detonate it. The only way I can see a bullet setting off a bomb is if it came from directly in front and did not penetrate but rather pushed in the pin.

Wes14 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2007, 06:19:45 PM »

if benny is right wouldnt that mean ppl would HO less with planes with bombs

Charge · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2007, 03:51:24 AM »

Krusty · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2007, 11:29:22 AM »

I don't think that's right. The steel casings of bombs were thin, compared to the thick armor around the pilots, and normal MG round STILL went through the pilot armor! Hell cannon rounds didn't even slow down when going through it. A 50cal or 20mm hit on a bomb would be tough, though, as it would have to hit from an angle sufficient to allow penetration. From dead front or dead back, chances are it woudl be a glancing blow and the round would skid off the curved/sloped surface. However, if one did penetrate I'm sure it would explode, as long as the round was incendiary or explosive.

Sketch · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2007, 02:02:01 PM »

A bomb will not explode if shot. They need to be armed first of all and in WWII it was the vain on the from of them (in bombers) and when it fell it would spin a certain number of revolutions for it to go off. Thus that is why the pins needed to be pulled before the inital drop. The explosive filler won't go off from an API round, they need to be armed first... it is as simple as that. A while back someone posted a photo of a bomber, I think a Lancaster, that got a flak round into its bomb bay. Well, they said it was from the flak round penatrating the bomb that made the bomber explode. What it was is the flak round blowing up inside the plane that took it down, not a flak round penatrating a bomb. And the chances of the perfect angle of the round to penatrate a bomb... maybe a million to one.

tedrbr · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2007, 05:32:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
I don't think that's right. The steel casings of bombs were thin, compared to the thick armor around the pilots, ............

Not really. I haven't handled WWII bombs, but the stuff that NATO was putting out in the 60's, 70's, and 80's I *have* handled while in Iraq, and those were not too different than what they were producing in the decades before that.

The casings are pretty thick, and part of the reason is they were made from lower grade metals..... cheap and easy to do in bulk quantities, plus being a heavy, thick, casing helps protect the bomb during transport, long storage, and if it happens to be caught in a bombing raid. Not easily dented from handling.
Plus, by having a strong heavy case around the charge, you actually increase the strength of a charge. Similar to difference to holding a lit firecracker between fingertips, and in your clenched fist..... very different effect when it goes pop.

Two things needed to set off most military grade explosives since WWII.... heat AND shock.... both.... not just one or the other. You can throw Composition C1 through C4 against a wall....OR... you can light it on fire (which is how you made a quick cup of coffee in Vietnam, pinch of C4 lit under your canteen cup). Now, the detonators can be susceptible to either shock or high temperatures, or even electrical current and static charges, but the main component typically needs both heat and shock.

Third, a round entering a plane has already been deformed from it's first impact with the plane.... then to expect a deformed round from penetrating the thick, *curved* casing of a bomb? A one in a million shot.

Theoretically can it happen? Yes. Did it ever happen during WWII? Odds of probability would say also yes, considering all the opportunities seven years of war provided. Was it at all common, or something they worried about? I seriously doubt that. Definitely not something that would happen enough to bother to model into a game.

Krusty · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2007, 12:32:01 PM »

They have a system of destroying shells today. They have a small device that explodes and shoots a very tiny amount of molten metal into the shell casing, burning up the explosives inside.

It's not nearly the full force of the shell had it blown up properly (on impact) but it still kicked that shell around to hell and caused enough damage doing it.

Whether the bomb is armed or not is one thing. It's still a high explosive device. If something gets through the outer shell it will set off the explosives inside. This doesn't mean a 50-foot fireball. But it might mean that the force of the explosives burning off inside the bomb shell rips it off the shackles (and takes half the wing with it) or if it's in a bomb bay it could rocket upward through the backbone of the plane, crippling the bomber or damaging wing supports (leading to a wing, tail, or many other vital parts going POOF).

tedrbr · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2007, 12:56:51 PM »

I think folks here are forgetting about UXO's.... Unexploded Ordnance.

Modern planes running at Mach at 30K can drop bombs that fail to explode as they are supposed to, or on impact. Arty shells don't go off all the time either. They will be pretty much intact after they hit.... maybe missing a fin or two, maybe slightly deformed, or a dent in the casing, but otherwise easily identifiable as a bomb. Very tough casings.

Some of the IED's and EFP's in Iraq are being made from ord the *US* dropped it the two Gulf Wars that failed to go off, in addition to what was there from Iraq-Iran War (mostly NATO stock), or what Saddam purchased from Russia, China, and N Korea over the years, and what is coming in over the borders from Syria and Iran today.

Krusty's right about some of the ways to destroy old ord, or UXO's, but the point is that you have to get through that outer casing.... and that is not a very simple thing to do. In the field, we needed to use enough C-4 and det cord to split the case open and set off whatever was inside. Farmers and construction workers STILL dig up live arty rounds in Europe from WW I (that's a one) on occasion as well as WW II. Heavily corroded, but intact, and live.

These things are not soda cans filled with black powder.

Krusty · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2007, 01:12:51 PM »

True, but neither are they garden gnomes

Lusche · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2007, 01:25:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by tedrbr
Farmers and construction workers STILL dig up live arty rounds in Europe from WW I (that's a one) on occasion as well as WW II. Heavily corroded, but intact, and live.

That happens still quite regulary here in Germany. In Cologne for example about 80 times a year.
In my town the last bomb was found 2 weeks ago, a 500lbs HE bomb. The fuse was still intact, so they had to disarm the bomb on site. All people in a radius of 250m around the site had to be evacuated.