Author Topic: Republican Candidates for 2008?  (Read 2616 times)

Offline tedrbr

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Republican Candidates for 2008?
« Reply #105 on: January 23, 2007, 10:03:31 PM »
IIRC, Brazil is the biggest biofuel producer in the western hemisphere..... they use sugar, which is easier to convert than corn.

And in order to protect American corn producers in the ethanol trade, we have a 100% tariff on Brazilian ethanol..... so they export a lot of it to Japan.

:noid

Of course, if we do turn toward Brazilian ethanol, we probably condemn the rain forest to further slash and burn agriculture....  


One of the biggest problems to bio diesel, and ethanol, and pulling the oil out of oil shale, is the power required for many of the processes.  Ironic that the most cost efficient way to develop most of these alternative fuels in the quantities to really mean something is the use of nuclear power.

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #106 on: January 23, 2007, 10:05:35 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

All kinds of biodiesel, even from wastewater treatment plants

"Biodiesel is becoming of interest to companies interested in commercial scale production as well as the more usual home brew biodiesel user and the user of straight vegetable oil or waste vegetable oil in diesel engines. Homemade biodiesel processors are many and varied. The success of biodiesel homebrewing, and micro-economy-of-scale operations, continues to shatter the conventional business myth that large economy-of-scale operations are the most efficient and profitable. It is becoming increasingly apparent that small-scale, localized, low-impact energy keeps more resources and revenue within communities, reduces damage to the environment, and requires less waste management."
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 10:07:56 PM by Sixpence »
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #107 on: January 23, 2007, 10:06:08 PM »
The SUV is just an example used by the author of the Fortune article. Why don't you call him up and ask him why he chose that particular type?

Biodiesel is better than ethanol but again, it would take a large amount of foodstocks.

If they proceed to making it from ag waste and otherwise useless grasses it will make a difference.

Oh...one other thing.. before you go spouting off and venting, perhaps you should do a little fact checking.

Main Crops in Afghanistan
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2007, 10:08:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Biodiesel is better than ethanol but again, it would take a large amount of foodstocks.


 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10381404
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline john9001

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« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2007, 10:10:44 PM »
i don't understand, do they make ethanol from just the corn kernel or do they use the stalk?  last summer i planted corn and the stalks grew so fast you could almost see them grow, 4-5" a day. I was amazed, i planted little kernels and ended up with hugs plants 7'-8' in weeks.  Hemp and bamboo are also fast growers.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2007, 10:11:13 PM »
That would be a far better solution than using food crops.

Now, any studies on how much fuel full utilization of all sewage will produce? It's feasible but how much will it supply?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #111 on: January 23, 2007, 10:15:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
That would be a far better solution than using food crops.

Now, any studies on how much fuel full utilization of all sewage will produce? It's feasible but how much will it supply?


C'mon, we produce alot of ****:D

But the point is there are many ways to produce it, not just corn.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #112 on: January 23, 2007, 10:15:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
i don't understand, do they make ethanol from just the corn kernel or do they use the stalk?  


The have not yet developed a process using the ag waste that is cost effective. It's close an it'll get done but they are not there as yet.

Iogen is one of the leading companies in this research. They are building pilot plants at this stage.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #113 on: January 23, 2007, 10:17:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
C'mon, we produce alot of ****:D

But the point is there are many ways to produce it, not just corn.


There are two real points:

1. Using food stocks to make fuel will only exchange one problem for another.

2. The technology for using non- food stock materials is not yet viable.

If we're going to work on anything, I'd say that's the area to focus upon.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lukster

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« Reply #114 on: January 23, 2007, 10:24:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
There are two real points:

1. Using food stocks to make fuel will only exchange one problem for another.

2. The technology for using non- food stock materials is not yet viable.

If we're going to work on anything, I'd say that's the area to focus upon.


Well, there are abundant biological materials which are completely wasted.

Soylent fuel is people!!!

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #115 on: January 23, 2007, 10:28:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
The have not yet developed a process using the ag waste that is cost effective. It's close an it'll get done but they are not there as yet.

Iogen is one of the leading companies in this research. They are building pilot plants at this stage.


Actually, I am trying to dig up an old article, and it says we would have to use other sources like sea algae(and seaweed) to run on biodiesel. And that was before they started using algae from wastewater.

c&p from wiki

"Biodiesel can be distributed using today's infrastructure, and its use and production are increasing rapidly. Fuel stations are beginning to make biodiesel available to consumers, and a growing number of transport fleets use it as an additive in their fuel. Biodiesel is generally more expensive to purchase than petroleum diesel but this differential may diminish due to economies of scale, the rising cost of petroleum and government tax subsidies."

Of course there will be transition, but solar energy is infinite(til the sun burns out anyway), plentiful and clean. I see no reason why it cannot be done.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #116 on: January 23, 2007, 10:33:11 PM »
I'm not saying it couldn't be done.

I'm saying we're a very long way from accomplishing energy independence through biodiesel.

Here's the key from your quote:

Quote
Biodiesel is generally more expensive to purchase than petroleum diesel but this differential may diminish due to economies of scale, the rising cost of petroleum and government tax subsidies."



What that says when you boil it down is that petroleum diesel is cheaper than biodiesel.

That's the hurdle we have to overcome. Until biodiesel is as cheap as petroleum diesel or at least a lot closer to it will cost your economy to switch.

Yeah, there are other benefits but I think even you see the problem with using a much more expensive fuel on a very large scale.

Again, they are working on making it cheaper and using waste to produce it is a key factor. That's the area to work on.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline chancevought

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Toad
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2007, 10:39:11 PM »
i dont have any pdf's, but it is fact that opium is a huge crop in afghanistan. It is also true that police and border guards are making hundreds of thousand's of dollars PER DAY in the smuggling of opium and heroin...Associated Press  really its true..i jus gave an idea...not venting...and no one NEEDS an SUV...my toyota cargo van will carry twice what any SUV will and do it with twice the MPG...many truckers do use biodiesel when it's available and said they would gladly pay the SLIGHTLY higher cost to help the environment....Coal is cheaper than petroleum, but it has penalties that out weight the cost difference....the penalty of using fossil fuels is greater than the challenges it takes to make new technology work...we cant wait and see..if we take small steps now it will make the bigger steps easier....and wasn't this thread about who the republicans are gonna put up for pres?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 10:47:25 PM by chancevought »

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2007, 10:40:36 PM »
Right, but it also says this:

"Biodiesel can be distributed using today's infrastructure, and its use and production are increasing rapidly. Fuel stations are beginning to make biodiesel available to consumers, and a growing number of transport fleets use it as an additive in their fuel. Biodiesel is generally more expensive to purchase than petroleum diesel but this differential may diminish due to economies of scale, the rising cost of petroleum and government tax subsidies."

And I think the wastewater article is pretty good too:

"A New Zealand-based company has become the first to manufacture home-grown bio-diesel using algae extracted from a sewerage pond – an innovation that could have implications for the global bio-science sector.

"We believe this is the world's first commercial production of bio-diesel from algae outside the laboratory, in 'wild' conditions," proclaimed Barrie Leay, spokesperson for Aquaflow Bionomic Corporation, achievers of the milestone.

Algae converts sunlight and carbon dioxide into energy through photosynthesis, in the same way plants do. Excess algae in ponds can smell, since they extract all the nutrients, hence the so-called bio-remediation of stagnant ponds not only cleans water but also provides the sustainable element of environmentally friendly fuel."

This would be great here, the cost of water treatment has driven up water bills in metro Boston to $1600.00 a year!(Thnx G.H. Bush for making the dirty harbor a campaign issue:furious ) It would be nice if some of the costs were offset from the sale of biodiesel.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Mark Luper

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Re: Toad
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2007, 10:51:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by chancevought
i dont have any pdf's, but it is fact that opium is a huge crop in afghanistan. It is also true that police and border guards are making hundreds of thousand's of dollars PER DAY in the smuggling of opium and heroin...Associated Press  really its true..i jus gave an idea...not venting...and no one NEEDS an SUV...my toyota cargo van will carry twice what any SUV will and do it with twice the MPG...


Chance,

None of us are in a position to determine what someone ELSE really needs.  Remember that the UV part of SUV stands for Utility Vehicle. There are tons of them out there and a miriad of different types. Your Toyota Cargo Van is a UV, perhaps not the Sport variety. A lot of them get good mileage too.  I know of an SUV that will probably carry more than your van internally while towing a large trailer to boot and with the deisel engine version will get reasonable fuel economy also. In a mpg per ton load capacity it could possibly beat your van.

As far as how much opium Afghanistan produces I have no idea.

Mark
MarkAT

Keep the shiny side up!