Author Topic: Multi-purpose Post  (Read 1236 times)

Offline Patches1

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Storch...
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2007, 01:55:39 PM »
First, I referenced the Midway battle where the Japanese lost four (4) Carriers, and I don't recall that any level bombers were used, but I am an old man and my memory may not be very good. All four (4) Japanese carriers were sunk, or severly damaged by Dive Bombing (JABO), if my memory serves me well (it mayn't however).

Second, I think you have confirmed that you have more of an issue with Bomber modeling than with the CV hardness. I agree that level bombers should have quite a difficult time in hitting CVs. I believe my previous posts support your contention that level bombing was an inexact science, and that level bombers never sunk a CV in WWII, to my knowledge (I could be wrong). So, from your standpoint of AH Bomber loads and the ease with which level bombers in AH can hit targets from nearly any altitude, I can understand why you wish to harden CVs further.

Clearly your issue is with Bomber modeling and not CV hardness, whereas my issue is with CV hardness and not Bomber modeling.

I just wanted to clarify our paths because each leads in a different direction and each path has a separate potential solution.

I posted my suggestion which encompasses the current Bomber modeling, makes Dive bombing more important, and dangerous, gives the CV a good chance of survival and gives gameplayers many options per gameplayer hour. Remember, under my suggestion, the CV does not incur any damage until all of it's escorts are sunk. Then, however, the CV becomes a soft and ripe target, just perfect for level bombing.

So, protecting the CV becomes very important, more so than the current gameset, in my opinion, where a single formation of level bombers can end, in a single pass, the enjoyment many who are having fun with the CVs.

Just some thoughts...



Patches
« Last Edit: January 25, 2007, 01:58:41 PM by Patches1 »
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Offline Patches1

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Shore Bombardment...
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2007, 02:08:30 PM »
Folks, I agree with the contention of keeping CVs out at sea.

I support the idea of a separate Landing Force complete with supply ships and Troop Transports protected by a CV Task Force.

This idea opens another dimension to Aces High Gameplay.



Patches
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Offline GooseAW

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« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2007, 02:33:13 PM »
Bring on the Submarines!:O

Offline Lazerr

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« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2007, 02:44:09 PM »
did someone say p38H??:rolleyes:

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2007, 04:08:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
patches sir how many carriers were sunk by direct enemy action in WWII?

 


Aircraft Carriers sunk from enemy action:

Battle of Coral Sea:
USS Lexington
IJN Carrier Shoho

Battle of Midway
USS Yorktown
IJN Carriers Akagi, Hiryu, Soryu & Kaga

Battle of Eastern Solomons
IJN Carrier Ryujo

Battle of Santa Cruz Islands
USS Hornet badly damaged; sunk the next day.

Philippines Campaign
IJN Carrier Shokaku
IJN Carriers Zuiho & Zuikaka (Battle of Leyte Gulf)

*this list only includes the large carriers that were sunk and does not list the US escort carriers that were sunk from enemy action.

List of IJN carriers sunkby enemy action in World War II

List of US carriers in World War II.  Article tells which ones were sunk by enemy action

ack-ack
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Storch...
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2007, 04:09:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Patches1
First, I referenced the Midway battle where the Japanese lost four (4) Carriers, and I don't recall that any level bombers were used, but I am an old man and my memory may not be very good. All four (4) Japanese carriers were sunk, or severly damaged by Dive Bombing (JABO), if my memory serves me well (it mayn't however).


Patches


B-17s were used but missed their targets and killed a crap load of fish.


ack-ack
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Offline Gary26

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« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2007, 04:16:28 PM »
Wasnt the Tirpitz sunk my level bombers after a zillion attempts.
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Offline Gary26

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« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2007, 04:19:21 PM »
The smokescreen was not active on the third attempt - "Operation Catechism". Tirpitz was finally sunk immediately to the west of Tromsø, in the bay of Håkøybotn, on 12 November 1944 by 617 and 9 Squadron Lancasters with Tallboys on their third attempt. The ship was struck by three Tallboys. One glanced off turret armour, but the other two pierced the ship's armour and blew a 200 foot hole into her port side. Soon after, internal fires set off a magazine and blew off "C" turret. Tirpitz capsized within minutes of the attack, and close to 1,000 German sailors, out of 1,700 aboard, died.
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Offline Murdr

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« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2007, 04:27:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Airplane gun ammo should not count towards the "total damage" applied to CVs and its escorts. Airplane guns should be able to take out gun turrets, but not be able to sink a vessel.

Wanted to cry last week when a single suicide NOE 110 sunk a CV with its cannons ... that is beyond ridiculous.
Every time this is brought up, I like to point to a Japaneese transport ship that was lost to nothing more than two P-38's who pickled a drop tank on its deck, and then started a fire by straffing. (It took about 8 hours to sink).  While that is not a CV, CVs were completely lost or taken out of action due to fires without from hull breaches from an attack.  
Short of HiTech programing a complex CV damage model that accounts for "a series of unfortunate events" that could take a CV out of action, I think the current system is a fair trade.

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2007, 05:28:28 PM »
Murdr, was it the Franklin , or the Bunker Hill That was hit by a kamikaze, and sat out the rest of the war while the Flight deck was rebuilt?

I also remember that the ship was nearly lost...Due mostly to the fires on board. I believe it was an Essex class vessel...

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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2007, 07:03:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gary26
The smokescreen was not active on the third attempt - "Operation Catechism". Tirpitz was finally sunk immediately to the west of Tromsø, in the bay of Håkøybotn, on 12 November 1944 by 617 and 9 Squadron Lancasters with Tallboys on their third attempt. The ship was struck by three Tallboys. One glanced off turret armour, but the other two pierced the ship's armour and blew a 200 foot hole into her port side. Soon after, internal fires set off a magazine and blew off "C" turret. Tirpitz capsized within minutes of the attack, and close to 1,000 German sailors, out of 1,700 aboard, died.
yup but it was tied to a pier and not manuevering.  also it didn't have the benefit of fighter cover.

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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2007, 07:08:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Aircraft Carriers sunk from enemy action:

Battle of Coral Sea:
USS Lexington
IJN Carrier Shoho

Battle of Midway
USS Yorktown
IJN Carriers Akagi, Hiryu, Soryu & Kaga

Battle of Eastern Solomons
IJN Carrier Ryujo

Battle of Santa Cruz Islands
USS Hornet badly damaged; sunk the next day.

Philippines Campaign
IJN Carrier Shokaku
IJN Carriers Zuiho & Zuikaka (Battle of Leyte Gulf)

*this list only includes the large carriers that were sunk and does not list the US escort carriers that were sunk from enemy action.

List of IJN carriers sunkby enemy action in World War II

List of US carriers in World War II.  Article tells which ones were sunk by enemy action

ack-ack
well sugarplum I thought I was on your ignore list.  didya miss me?   back to the topic, there were no fleet carriers sunk by direct enemy action.  all were put out of commission by jabo attacks and later sunk by torpedos.  IIRC the escort carrier gambier bay was the only carrier ever sunk by direct enemy action during the battle for leyte.