F4U1a vs P51D

[Keiler]

Originally posted by humble
Actually a .50 cal sniper rifle is vey much that accuarate. It's a sub MOA rifle to start with. A match tuned barrel and match grade ammo make it very accurate. The SR-25 is a .75 MOA or better out of the box. Accuracy under .5 MOA is very possible. A world class sniper could hit a headshot at 2000M with a SR-25....however I'd assume the range is 2200 ft (660 M) which is considered the max effective range for the SR-25 (and similiar weapons) A group in the 1.5-2 in range would be pretty standard for a world class marksman with matchgrade 168 gr ammo.

I am a sportshot too. I can shoot about 0.5 MOA with very good ammo with my particular rifle in 308, with 168gr SMK. 50 BMG is an entirely different ballpark than 308 though, 300 WinMag etc. With Matchgrade ammo in 50cal and a M82 light fifty it is expected to shoot subMOA, meaning barely below that at any range. At 2000m, thats roughly 23.6" of dispersion. Since the 50cal wont pass the transsonic threshold at this range, one can calculate ballparkwise linearily.
A world class sniper would be absolutely lucky if he hit a head at 2000m with a 308, its simply pure statistics. The 308 passes the transsonic threshold at 800, maximum 1100m for very heavy Matchloads (175gr) and 24" barrels. Within the transsonic area the bullet gets dispersed a lot and loses its initial trajectory, opening up groups considerably. If we take out the case of transsonic behaviour, 0.5 MOA at 2000m means 30cm, thats roughly 11.8". Were talking about human heads?


My best regards,

Matt


[edited for spelling]

[EagleDNY]

Originally posted by SlapShot
He got the 3 right ... the goal of the gun is to maintain a 30" group at 2000 yrds which should be maintainable due to it being a sem-auto and employing a new and sophisticated dampening of the recoil.

So, if the first round is on target, then the following 4 rounds should be able to be dropped within 30" of the first round. The host fired all 5 rounds in 1.5 seconds.

Here is the show clip on YouTube ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfnwyJvtJuI

OK - So I can't say for certain that the guy hit the 3" face circle on that man-sized target 2,000 yards out, but you can see that he definitely dropped his target.  I am still properly impressed.

EagleDNY
$.02

[Keiler]

Yeah it was an awesome shot!

Still, there is no way in hell to produce a rifle with a semi-action, rocoil dampener (more moving parts eg more tolerances) and ammunition to "maintain" (btw. that doesnt mean the first round is dead on, and the rest is somewhere inside a 30" circle, it means the rifle must be able to shoot within that 30" with every shot, given perfect conditions) 3" at 2000yds. This would be a true revelation.
The best benchresters are not capable of shooting that kind of precision with 20kg heavy guns firing 6mm PPC at 100m, change out barrels after 100 rounds, clean after each  or third shot, handload using micrograin gauges etc.

Simply not possible, as a 100% rule! Statistically spoken its well possible to put a headshot at this distance. But if you only had one round, I wouldnt expect my luck to give me that 10% chance if I hadnt to.

30" at 2000yds is still awesome performance and absolutely top-notch. Remember its not an anti personal rifle primarily eventhough you can use it just for that. Its designed to pick and maim high value targets from long range, with little effort. For example, imagine how much hassle you'd have when a SEAL team or SAS or whoever cripples all the radar noses of enemy jetfighters/radio station or AA-control on the ground. Fighting ability diminished.

Best regards,
Matt

[EagleDNY]

True, the 2,000 yard shot was probably the exception and not the rule.  Given the damage that the rounds did to the concrete and steel targets at 600 yards (certainly a more realistic engagement range), anybody on the wrong end is definitely in trouble.

[wojo71]

My 2 cents on the .50 cal m2  ,they are heavy ,pain in the butt to clean and  the tracers set  range on fire nicely and drive the range NCO nuts there by making the day worthwhile:D (back in the day)