Author Topic: F4U1a vs P51D (Read 2380 times)

KINGcobra · « **on:** January 26, 2007, 07:39:26 AM »

all
i have been playing for a while,and i have noticed that the F4U1A seems to have a more powerfull round them the P51D.I have my convergences set to the same thing and it seems to me and other that it's more powerfull.i have been asking around and other people agree with me. the both have 6 .50cal guns both are inside the wing but the 1A's gun's seem to dish out more power.What do you guys think about this?

Chalenge · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2007, 09:24:26 AM »

I strongly disagree. Everything I shoot with the 50s in the P51 shred into ribbons quickly. Everything that can be shredded anyway.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2007, 09:50:41 AM »

alot of people have this assumption, then again others have the other sides opinion...........

my belief is it is the gun platform and where the guns are located that makes it appear guns seem more powerful in one plane vs the other,, those who fly the P51 mostly and the F4U series seldomly would prob think the 51's 50 cals are more powerful and vice versa..........

KINGcobra · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2007, 11:03:39 AM »

all,
yes sir,my self and 5 other's agree with me,most i asked are rooks but 2 knights agreed with my...but most of the guys i asked were MAINLEY P51D.I asked them if they flew the 1A at all and they said yes,they continued to say that the 1A's .50's are more stronger and it takes less of then so shoot some one down.

comparing the 2,the P51's rate of fore is better then the 1A's but im combat me and others see a difference in the shooting performance

Saxman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2007, 11:20:59 AM »

There shouldn't be any difference in rate of fire between the F4U and P-51. Both are armed with the same Browning M2.

The perceived difference MAY have to do with gun placement, (I thought I remember reading that, due to the wider propeller arc, the F4U's guns are further outboard on the wing, and as a result convergence is best set closer) or that since the F4U is a better turner it's easier to maintain a tracking shot and put more fire into the target (the four guns of the FM-2 give me the same impression of having more punch).

Also check convergence range. Players may be using a different range in the P-51 than they do in the F4U, and even a change of only 50 yards can make a big difference with the Ma Deuce.

KINGcobra · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2007, 11:35:47 AM »

saxman,u do have a point.but i have the convergences set to the same thing,300 and working out in both the P51 and 1A.The guys i asked keep the comvergences the same aswell. i dont know to be honest i think the 1A's .50's are more powerfull then the P51's

Bronk · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2007, 11:41:10 AM »

IMHO

I think it's a subconscious reaction to the lighter ammo load.

You are not holding the trigger down as long as you would in the hog/fm2.

I have had to make a conscious effort to make sure I hold trigger in the 51.

Bronk

detch01 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 26, 2007, 11:43:25 AM »

While I don't have the measurements to prove it, my $0.02 is that the gun packages on the hogs are closer to the aircraft centre line than the gun packages on the ponies. The 50cal is the same gun in the hog and the ponies, it's just that in the hog you've got a wider convergence range where all the bullets from your guns will converge inside the space occupied by your target.

asw

Virage · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2007, 12:14:04 PM »

go offline and test them both against a hanger.

KINGcobra · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2007, 12:27:55 PM »

detch01,i never thought of that sir,but why having the gun's closre to the body help with it's .50's power?

jhookt · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2007, 01:03:55 PM »

generally speaking, now is when Widewing would hop into this thread and supply us with mountains of info to prove one way or the other. since he hasn't, it is either A) a not valid idea or B) like bronk said and is a subconscience thing. either way, one thing i have noticed is switching from .50's to cannon is hard sometimes, i have to remind myself to lead according to the plane i'm in.

KINGcobra · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2007, 01:26:43 PM »

well i dont hold the trigger down only small bursts,but in them small bursts, for me anyways the 1A seens to be more stronger.

and beleave me im not a noob even thow i just regestered to the bord

Fencer51 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2007, 01:44:24 PM »

As a P-51D regular, I assume that is why I was asked my opinion for this topic. Funny thing is VanScrew was doing the asking not this new account. Interesting.

I fly the 51D most of the time. It can and does shred a plane when you get a concentrated 1 sec or more burst in. I did say that I thought the F4U-1A seemed to be hitting harder than the P-51D.

I also said that it was probably a function of the better view down the nose in the F4U-1A and its increased ability to hit a target in a turn fight along it's profile thereby giving the APPEARANCE of more damage being done by the F4U-1A's guns. Besides you can see the shots hit better in the F4U-1A.

And Bronk too raises a valid point.

Cheers,

detch01 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2007, 02:41:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by KINGcobra
detch01,i never thought of that sir,but why having the gun's closre to the body help with it's .50's power?

It doesn't. A 50cal is a 50cal. But say the width of the fuselage of your target is 3ft. If the angle of the bullet flight paths from your guns is smaller, you'll be able to put your bullets into that 3ft wide area over a greater distance forward and back from your convergence point, giving you a higher probability of actually getting your shots into your target. If you can put four of your six 50cal bullets into your target, that's a lot more powerful a hit than if you can only put 2 of them into it. That's where the apparent difference in hitting power comes from.
Of course, if the guns in the hogs are the same distance from the centre line as the pony, well, that blows my theory right out of the water

. But, until I find out different, it seems like a reasonable idea to me.

Cheers
asw

bustr · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2007, 03:11:07 PM »

Is there a test you can perform offline just incase a varience exists between the two planes gunner model? Have you tried staggering the convergence across 3 distances like Schatzi describes in her article about gunnery?

I did that with my P47's. Outside 2 .50's at 325. Inside 2 at 350. When I "hit" planes now more damage happens in 1 sec by my perception than before. Now when I kill spits much of the time both wings fall off and the plane falls to peices. Before when I had all .50's converging at the same spot, I got fewer kills with only one wing falling off or part of the tail section.

I tried a 1A with it's six .50 staggered outside 275, mid 300 and inside 325. Improved my snap shooting. Same with a 51D. At 400 and shorter everything fell apart the same for me. But then I may have a scewed perception due to flying 47's.