Author Topic: Ju87 (Read 396 times)

BaldEagl · « **on:** January 28, 2007, 04:33:25 PM »

I'm not sure if this is a bug or something that was just never anticipated and modeled in but last night I flew a mission with a JU87. On my dive I sheared all three gear off flush with the fuselage. I flew home level @ full throttle.

I upped a second time, this time didn't tear the gear off and flew home level, same alt, full throttle.

There was no speed variation between the two return trips.

I would have expected much more speed with the gear torn off.

bj229r · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2007, 01:33:13 PM »

Lol, I was gettin some ideas until ya said the last part:lol

Apeking · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2007, 07:49:19 AM »

I tested this in the offline arena - the landing gear on all the aircraft weighs nothing*, and there is no difference in speed between a Ju87/D3 with landing gear, and a Ju87/D3 with gear ripped off.

* In fact, the elevators / ailerons weigh nothing either - if they fall off, your aircraft weighs the same.

BaldEagl · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2007, 10:24:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Apeking
I tested this in the offline arena - the landing gear on all the aircraft weighs nothing*, and there is no difference in speed between a Ju87/D3 with landing gear, and a Ju87/D3 with gear ripped off.

* In fact, the elevators / ailerons weigh nothing either - if they fall off, your aircraft weighs the same.

Weight wouldn't be the only factor. Aerodynamic drag would probably be an even bigger factor than weight.

It's modeled into the planes that are able to lift gear. I just assumed it would be modeled if you ripped gear off a fixed gear aircraft.

Thanks for verifying this.

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2007, 12:00:16 PM »

I'm guessing they're not modeled, but my question is as follows:

Who's to say the benefits of fixed gear with aerodynamic spats aren't equal to the detriments of gaping, ragged holes in the underside of both wings?

Apeking · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2007, 02:20:02 PM »

"Aerodynamic drag"

I have no way to test aerodynamic drag with the E6B, I can only test weight. It's a shame that Hitech doesn't offer a suite of flight test tools to go with the offline simulator - a lot of the people on these boards absolutely love statistics and numbers, and I can imagine the raw beauty of official figures would shut some of them up. Perhaps Hitech could release Aces High into the open source arena, and then everybody could see the wizard's cards.

It is possible that a neutered Ju87 accelerates slightly faster than a non-neutered Ju87, or flies better in some way. Someone would have to time its acceleration and do some aerobatics, and I can think of more interesting things to do with my time than test a Ju87's acceleration. I could, for example, count the change in my wallet, and put the pennies into date order. I could experiment with water-based lubricants and elastic bands. I could apply my talent to something that would earn money, instead of giving it away for free.

"It's modelled into the planes that are able to lift gear. I just assumed it would be modeled if you ripped gear off a fixed gear aircraft."

As far as I can tell, even if you rip the gear off an aircraft that has retractable wheels, there is no impact on the aircraft's performance. It's as if the game sees no difference between an aircraft with retracted gear, and one that has had its gear shorn off. If the gear falls off a 190A5 the model is shown to have missing wheel well doors, although you can still activate the "gear raise/lower" sound, albeit that this seems to have no effect on the aircraft model or its performance.

I must state that I only tested the 190A5, and then only offline. Perhaps the offline arena has a different damage model, or there is a toggle in the arena setup that I missed.

"Who's to say the benefits etc"

You don't have to reply to every post. You could lift weights instead, or make a cup of coffee, or watch television.

OOZ662 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2007, 05:12:08 PM »

When the flaps are taken off, they're still there in every way except visually. Perhaps the same applies to the other control surfaces.

BaldEagl · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2007, 06:41:10 PM »

Apeking,

I was in no way dissing you or faulting the tests you ran. In fact I thought I had thanked you for the effort. I was only stating my belief that drag was also an important factor.

I also realize there is no official way to test this but there is an unofficial way with at least one aircraft. Fly an F4U to speed and drop gear. Performance will take a hit.

Another way to test the effects of both wieght and drag together is to fly any attack plane both with and without external ordinance. We all know what the differeces are.

Krusty,

Apekings tests seem to show that retracted gear and gaping holes make no difference in the modeling in AH. Although I would expect some performance loss it may be a weight/drag trade-off but again, Apekings tests show no loss of weight so that's probably not the answer.

Also, when I sheared the gear there were no visible markings nor obvious damage to the undersides of the wings.

OOZ662,

We know that if you lose elevators, ailerons, etc. your plane becomes much more difficult to fly so it seems those control surfaces are in fact missing, but again, Apekings tests do not bear this out relative to weight.

It would seem at this point that these things haven't been modeled into AH which is fine. I've just come to expect so much from AH it's strange when you run into these anomolies.

Furthermore, I didn't mean to start an argument or to hurt anyones feelings or anything with this post. I simply thought I was posting what I viewed as a bug in the game. Sorry if I somehow offended anyone.

bj229r · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2007, 07:41:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by OOZ662
When the flaps are taken off, they're still there in every way except visually. Perhaps the same applies to the other control surfaces.

When ya lose flap on jug, it wont fly correctly--wing surface missing

OOZ662 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2007, 08:26:24 PM »

When you lose a flap, it visually falls off but is actually stuck in the position you left it. Go into a custom H2H and lower your flaps all the way, have a buddy shoot one off with some little accurate gun; perhaps a pintle on a tank while still on the runway. Raise the flaps and you'll notice that the plane rolls heavily because the flap is stuck in the former position, not missing.

My theory is that control surfaces don't go flying off, but rather they go limp as if the cable had been severed.