Author Topic: Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept  (Read 431 times)

Offline tedrbr

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« on: February 01, 2007, 03:55:36 PM »
This occurred to me when I was looking at a photo of an A-1 Skyraider.

An online Vietnam air combat game.

Now, North V didn't not have much of an air force, and air to air was limited, but there is a lot of interest in the American presence in the air war.  A lot of variety there.  

CAS planes like Sandy and Puff the Magic Dragon/Spooky and Spectre, Fairchild AC-119G Shadow
Fast movers like the Phantom, A6 Intruder, A-4 Skyhawk, F-111, A-7 CorsairII, Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter, Republic F-105 Thunderchief, North American F-100 Super Sabre,
Bombers like the B-52 and Martin B-57 Canberra
Helicopter like the Huey, Chinook, Cobra, Boeing CH-46 Sea Knight,
Cargo planes like the C-130, de Havilland Canada DHC-4 Caribou,
and others A-26B's and C's. OV-10 Bronco, Cessna A-37 Dragonfly

Ground vehicles included:
M41 Walker Bulldog, M48, M60 Patton, M551 Sheridan, and Centurion main battle tank , M113 APC (Armored Personnel Carrier), M50 Ontos, Cadillac Gage V-100 Commando and artillery like the     * 75 mm and M102 105 mm Howitzer 60 mm, 81 mm, and 107 mm Mortar, M2 105 mm howitzer, M102 105 mm howitzer, M107 175mm self-propelled, M109 155 self-propelled howitzer, M110 8-inch self-propelled howitzer


PAVN equipment included:
82 mm and 120 mm mortars (M1938), 107 mm, 122 mm, 140 mm rockets
MiG-21s jet fighter
MiG-19s jet fighter
MiG-17s jet
AN-2 aircraft
Mi-8 helicopter
PT-76 amphibious tank
BTR-50
BMP-1
ZSU-23-4 anti-aircraft self-propelled systems
T54-55 main battle tanks
ZSU-57-2 anti-aircraft self-propelled system, fielded in limited numbers.
 
And scores of AA and AAA and SAMs, and lots and lots of soldiers to send forward as cannon-fodder.


You have several major areas to contend with.  North Vietnam Air war.  South Vietnam (with delta, highlands, and jungles), Carrier Group on station, and the Ho Chi Minh trail and "secret" war in Laos.  You've got day as well as night time for operations.

You have a big map representing the AO.  Cities, Bases and Firebases scattered about.  PAVN/NVA Armies could be moved like Task Groups are in AHII.... take command and move them where you want to take over.  They get near a base or other strong-point they begin a siege.  American side has a couple of it's own TG "Armies" (but far fewer) and most troop movement by air.

Ho Chi Minh trail supplies armies in the south.  Endless ant trail.  The more it's attacked, the weaker the PAVN and NVA forces in the south, the more ant-trail supplies move forward, the stronger those Armies get.  Triple canopy would make locating them very hard to do.

Conversely, American and S V forces must be supplied by air to maintain their strength at strong points/bases against siege.   To take an object requires the airlift of enough troops and supplies to an area.

Siege becomes an attrition event.  If American forces unable to attack the PAVN/NVA forces or resupply the strong point with supplies and fresh troops --- it falls.  If PAVN/NVA forces not able to move enough supplies down the Trail, they fail to overwhelm the attackers.


Missions posted for pilots.

When an American Pilot gets shot down, it can at times generate a S&R mission to recover that downed pilot.  (downed pilot not stuck there, a bot takes his place).  Pilots can respond to that.  At the same time "enemy activity" (bots) increases in the area, and PAVN players know there is a pilot in that area, and can man local anti-air defense.

A sieged base would flash, and there would be calls for CAS, napalm runs, bombing attacks, arc-light, resupply of equipment and troops, medivac, and so forth.

Random medivac and CAS request missions,

Up North, it would be PAVN interceptors and air defense vs American bombing attacks.  Players can take command of any SAM, AA, or AAA site.  Around siege strongholds, players on both side can take charge or arty and mortar fire and GV's as appropriate.  


Granted, this puts much more emphasis on the American side of the War than the N V side for player participation.   This game also depends on much more AI code support than AHII does.  Using the equipment of the era, and tactics, it may be possible to create a fictional battleground similar to this for a generic war arena, with a 3-way fight as well.


Just some rough thoughts.

Running a Huey on a mission to a hot LZ.  Flying Skyraiders on a CAS mission.  Operating Spooky or Spectre over a sieged base or hunting over the Ho Chi Minh trail.   Dropping a LRRP team near the trail to gain better intel on an area for the team.  Air dropping cargo over Laos.  Running a river boat in the delta.

Good times.  Fun times.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2007, 03:58:27 PM »
:noid :noid :noid

Anyone else remember Air Warrior: Vietnam?
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Offline john9001

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2007, 04:05:25 PM »
i will only play if i can blow up sam city in downtown hanoi, and sink russian freighters in the harbor.

Offline Debonair

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 04:07:24 PM »

Offline Sikboy

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 04:31:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
:noid :noid :noid

Anyone else remember Air Warrior: Vietnam?


Yep. I remember thinking "Airwarrior loved being the only game in town. Now that it has competition from Fighter Ace and Warbirds, they'd rather change the rules than get better at the game"

I thought they'd make the game before coming apart though.

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Offline rpm

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 04:40:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
i will only play if i can blow up sam city in downtown hanoi.
That game is already out.

PLAY
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Offline sluggish

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 04:48:10 PM »
I would rather see a Korean War AH...

Offline Chairboy

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 05:04:25 PM »
I'd enjoy Vietnam, but I'd probably like Korea better.  The games are more fun without the missiles, or at least, without super missiles.

But great concept writeup, I could see the gameplay in my mind.
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Offline Ripsnort

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 05:04:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
or targetware?

Whatever happened with that targetware? Did it ever get off the ground? (sorry for pun)

Offline Hornet33

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2007, 05:07:00 PM »
Yeah i'd have to agree with a Korean war AH and I would love to see a WWI AH with Zeplins and stuff.

You get to the Vietnam era and then you have tons of people shooting AIM-7's and AIM-9's all over the place going for a BVR kill. Screw that....go for guns.
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Offline Rolex

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2007, 06:09:23 PM »
Targetware might be the "Linux of air combat" sims. A lot of distro ideas with some passionate volunteer developers, but not much chance of seeing something complete anytime this decade, if ever. I would chaulk it up to it being too vast a project for "development by anarchy" model of project management.

Korea, Vietnam and contemporary military arenas are just too small of a niche market to warrant any effort.

The only other market with enough size and few competitors is the general aviation sim market. Continuing the same theme, Flight Simulator X might be the "Vista" of flight sims.

Could a general aviation sim in the model of AH, with different arenas for different locations (using community produced terrains) and weather/time conditions be successful? I would say it likely would be. Could HTC produce it? I would say they could do a great job.

The question is would they want to? I doubt it. It's a fun thing to dream about, but I think they're too smart for that. I would attribute much of the success of Aces High and HTC to them doing the best the could, with the resources they have, in a market they know.

Offline x0847Marine

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2007, 08:18:14 PM »
Take a look at Wings Over Vietnam, fun.. but on line play is lacking.  HT should throw some AH mojo at that game.

Offline LePaul

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2007, 08:25:45 PM »
Strike Fighters/Wings over Vietnam/Wings over Europe....the multiplayer is to be desired but its there.

Also, there are some nice mods if you still have the Jane's USAF game.  Check the SimHQ forums for links.

Offline Curval

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2007, 08:37:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hornet33
Yeah i'd have to agree with a Korean war AH and I would love to see a WWI AH with Zeplins and stuff.

You get to the Vietnam era and then you have tons of people shooting AIM-7's and AIM-9's all over the place going for a BVR kill. Screw that....go for guns.


yep.....

A WW1 sim would be alot of fun.
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Offline Rollins

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Aces High: Vietnam? Game concept
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2007, 10:18:41 PM »
Oh, to fly that Spooky...:t
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