Two questions for HT

[bzek74]

I think the whole assist thing is whacked, I love vulching anything in a tank and sitting 30m off a runway hitting someone as soon as they pop and getting a assist? Ummm no. I'll tag a dying plane with bb's as its dropping to get that assist to my name, Ive been seeing more and more people going in all guns blazing on a de-winged plane and that makes me wanna vomit.

I can see people in a horde situation where 10 are on a lone spits 6 and someone taking the shot a second or two after the actual damage was done, But people who cannon dead or burning planes ( unless its ib bomber to cv ) make me see red.

All and all the who gets the kill needs checking into. Shouldnt be anyway 50 cals rob a panzer of a fresh spawned plane kill.

                                              90prf

[The Fugitive]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
This is nonsense.  I made several hundred kills today, and only got two assists.  As you aquire more skill, the fewer assists you will get because you will begin annihilating the target in a quarter of a second, unless you are flying aircraft with neither heavy machine guns nor cannon.  And, as Krusty said, be a man and when you see a bandit with two of your boys on him, leave him alone.

Have you switched over to the MA's Benny? If not then you can't use your experiance's to back what your saying here. At most in a H2H arena your going to have 7 on 1, which I would think is unlikely too. However you have the luxury of time to "finish off" your opponate, where as those in the MA do not in most cases. So as you get to be a "better pilot" in this instance Most of the "top guns" fly a less aggresive style fight were they leave them selves "outs" and such and don't get sucked into long hard turning fights to the death. Most hit and extend, then hit again conserving both their equipment and their "E". In the MA this give ample time for others to "steal a kill".

For me, I think the  assist set-up is fine. I do complain a lot about getting assists all the time, but its due to my own failings due to poor aim, I'm just not getting enough hits on target. Its frustrating, but I can admit its me, not the game giving me the assists.

[hubsonfire]

The only change I would like to see, and I recall HT saying something to the effect of considering whether or not it could be done in the past, is that once a plane is taken out of the fight (wing off, vert or horiz stab or entire tail) the kill awarding system registers no more damage. There are a lot of folks trying to steal kills lately (both old and new, and squaddies ), and I would think this change would end a lot of it. However, I can't pretend to know how difficult this would be to impliment, but I would like something along those lines.

[Helm]

In fact, I am playing more now than I did when I left. The only pitfalls of the new changes I have seen is that wife ack has increased and I can't find a muzzel that fits

Deploy chaff!!   ......$...$...$...$$...$$...$$$...$...$...$...$$...$

[Sloehand]

My two cents worth.

This game is something of a WWII historical endeavor so consider this as a possible basis to settle this issue.

WWII gun camera footage primarily determined kills awarded, i.e. generally, if the plane is seen to be destroyed, a kill is awarded, if not, no kill.  In other words, even if a pilot shot the heck out of a plane, but it flew off into the sunset, no kill.  Moments later, another pilot comes along and slaps the final round into it and it goes down.  Seen in his gun camera, a kill!

No matter how many rounds you put into a bandit, no matter how much damage you inflicted, if it doesn't go down, you didn't make a kill.  Period.  

Therefore, if another comes along and pilot puts one round into that damaged plane (given it could conceivably be landed and repaired  thereby not requiring a replace aircraft be manufactured), then he finished the job that YOU failed to complete.  You get an assist, but he actually destroyed the enemy aircraft (with your previous assistance) and should, therefore, receive the kill.

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
Have you switched over to the MA's Benny? If not then you can't use your experiance's to back what your saying here. At most in a H2H arena your going to have 7 on 1, which I would think is unlikely too. However you have the luxury of time to "finish off" your opponate, where as those in the MA do not in most cases. So as you get to be a "better pilot" in this instance Most of the "top guns" fly a less aggresive style fight were they leave them selves "outs" and such and don't get sucked into long hard turning fights to the death. Most hit and extend, then hit again conserving both their equipment and their "E". In the MA this give ample time for others to "steal a kill".

I spent my two weeks in the arena, and got a greater than one-to-one kill ratio doing so (again, with practically no assists), without letting my statistics dictate my actions.  In other words, I didn't particularly mind getting shot down.  Saying that "better pilots fly less aggressively" isn't quite true; the better tacticians do that.  The best fliers fly into any fight, almost heedless of the odds.  More often than not, they come out victorious.  Other times they lose, and learn from their mistakes.  We have that advantage over real pilots.

Anyway, you don't need to get suckered into a long turning fight, or take a long time to make your kill.  As I said, most of my kills are (and were) quarter-second snapshots which result in an instant wreck.  Anyone who sprays that thing in the short time before it hits the ground isn't getting anything more than an assist.  As you get better, you become more able to take down an aircraft with a quarter-second snapshot.  That means very few assists.

Originally posted by Sloehand
Therefore, if another comes along and pilot puts one round into that damaged plane (given it could conceivably be landed and repaired  thereby not requiring a replace aircraft be manufactured), then he finished the job that YOU failed to complete.  You get an assist, but he actually destroyed the enemy aircraft (with your previous assistance) and should, therefore, receive the kill.

This is true.  But what about the guy who peppers the flaming wreck, or the airplane missing half a wing?  The airplane would have shortly hit the ground, and he did little or nothing to cause that.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
This is nonsense.  I made several hundred kills today, and only got two assists.  

Originally posted by Benny Moore
I spent my two weeks in the arena, and got a greater than one-to-one kill ratio doing so (again, with practically no assists), without letting my statistics dictate my actions.  In other words, I didn't particularly mind getting shot down.  Saying that "better pilots fly less aggressively" isn't quite true; the better tacticians do that.  The best fliers fly into any fight, almost heedless of the odds.  More often than not, they come out victorious.  Other times they lose, and learn from their mistakes.  We have that advantage over real pilots.

Anyway, you don't need to get suckered into a long turning fight, or take a long time to make your kill.  As I said, most of my kills are (and were) quarter-second snapshots which result in an instant wreck.  Anyone who sprays that thing in the short time before it hits the ground isn't getting anything more than an assist.  As you get better, you become more able to take down an aircraft with a quarter-second snapshot.  That means very few assists.

So are you going to admit you overstated what you actually did yesterday in H2H.
OR
Are you just going to keep dancing around that.
 

Bronk

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
The only change I would like to see, and I recall HT saying something to the effect of considering whether or not it could be done in the past, is that once a plane is taken out of the fight (wing off, vert or horiz stab or entire tail) the kill awarding system registers no more damage. There are a lot of folks trying to steal kills lately (both old and new, and squaddies ), and I would think this change would end a lot of it. However, I can't pretend to know how difficult this would be to impliment, but I would like something along those lines.

 

[COndor06]

I guess I am a little confused by some of the post. First, the assist I am speaking of are not the ones I get from aircraft I have shot at and just damaged. Its the assist I get from aircraft I shoot down that are increasing in numbers and I don't understand how this would be considered non sense.

2. I don't know why some people have to become arrogant in this forum. I just wanted some others ideas and take on the assist situation. This is the first time I have heard anyone say they are happy with the way things are as far as assist go. I don't monitor 200 for obvious reasons but in the rook world I hear assist complaints every night.

3. I don't steal kills and have never been accused of it by anyone. I will follow and engaged pilot to see if he can finish the job and its cool to film those situations as a third party. For me anyway. So at the risk again of being lamb basted here, how can someone steal a kill if the aircraft has been shot down, I mean, can a kill be taken away if you shoot a wing off and its falling to the ground out of control? I thought at the present assist setup that an incapacitated plane was already determined to be a kill for someone. I am not trying to be a smart prettythang here. I am asking for my own knowledge.

4. I think any pilot that would steal a kill would be judged harshly by the group he was in. Its just rude. Thats not to say it won't happen but you would think that if the stealing pilot wanted to have some camaraderie with his fellow team, squad, or country mates that it wouldn't be the thing to do.

Last. I have been involved with 4,6,9 pilots all chasing the only enemy within sight. I am the closest plane at 800 out in a 51 and not closing. I may have a few pings on him but not able to complete the kill. Another plane overtakes my position an closes in for the kill. Now for me it just makes sense that he shoots the plane down. Not to mention that we are all laughing on the radio wondering how we are so lonely as to chase this one plane. Is this guy stealing a kill? Not in my opinion. He just has the best opportunity.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by COndor06
I guess I am a little confused by some of the post. First, the assist I am speaking of are not the ones I get from aircraft I have shot at and just damaged. Its the assist I get from aircraft I shoot down that are increasing in numbers and I don't understand how this would be considered non sense.

2. I don't know why some people have to become arrogant in this forum. I just wanted some others ideas and take on the assist situation. This is the first time I have heard anyone say they are happy with the way things are as far as assist go. I don't monitor 200 for obvious reasons but in the rook world I hear assist complaints every night.

3. I don't steal kills and have never been accused of it by anyone. I will follow and engaged pilot to see if he can finish the job and its cool to film those situations as a third party. For me anyway. So at the risk again of being lamb basted here, how can someone steal a kill if the aircraft has been shot down, I mean, can a kill be taken away if you shoot a wing off and its falling to the ground out of control? I thought at the present assist setup that an incapacitated plane was already determined to be a kill for someone. I am not trying to be a smart prettythang here. I am asking for my own knowledge.

4. I think any pilot that would steal a kill would be judged harshly by the group he was in. Its just rude. Thats not to say it won't happen but you would think that if the stealing pilot wanted to have some camaraderie with his fellow team, squad, or country mates that it wouldn't be the thing to do.

Last. I have been involved with 4,6,9 pilots all chasing the only enemy within sight. I am the closest plane at 800 out in a 51 and not closing. I may have a few pings on him but not able to complete the kill. Another plane overtakes my position an closes in for the kill. Now for me it just makes sense that he shoots the plane down. Not to mention that we are all laughing on the radio wondering how we are so lonely as to chase this one plane. Is this guy stealing a kill? Not in my opinion. He just has the best opportunity.

Ahh this post is very enlightening.




Bronk

[COndor06]

Thanks for making my point

[Bronk]

Originally posted by COndor06
Thanks for making my point

If your point was.  You fly with numbers side, picking off wounded stragglers making their way back to base, and chasing lone enemy around on the deck .  All the while looking like the seagulls from Finding Nemo screaming "MINE, MINE, MINE.".

Then I got your point.


Bronk

[Tabasco]

Originally posted by COndor06
So at the risk again of being lamb basted here, how can someone steal a kill if the aircraft has been shot down, I mean, can a kill be taken away if you shoot a wing off and its falling to the ground out of control? I thought at the present assist setup that an incapacitated plane was already determined to be a kill for someone.

Yes...if a tailless plane is fluttering toward earth because of a few well-placed rounds from your guns and has, say, 10k feet to fall before it hits, someone can come along and "finish him off" after you've gone on your merry way.

A kill or assist is not awarded to anyone until the pilot of the stricken plane leaves the cockpit, whether by death or by bailing out.

[Fianna]

Originally posted by COndor06
I guess I am a little confused by some of the post. First, the assist I am speaking of are not the ones I get from aircraft I have shot at and just damaged. Its the assist I get from aircraft I shoot down that are increasing in numbers and I don't understand how this would be considered non sense.

2. I don't know why some people have to become arrogant in this forum. I just wanted some others ideas and take on the assist situation. This is the first time I have heard anyone say they are happy with the way things are as far as assist go. I don't monitor 200 for obvious reasons but in the rook world I hear assist complaints every night.

3. I don't steal kills and have never been accused of it by anyone. I will follow and engaged pilot to see if he can finish the job and its cool to film those situations as a third party. For me anyway. So at the risk again of being lamb basted here, how can someone steal a kill if the aircraft has been shot down, I mean, can a kill be taken away if you shoot a wing off and its falling to the ground out of control? I thought at the present assist setup that an incapacitated plane was already determined to be a kill for someone. I am not trying to be a smart prettythang here. I am asking for my own knowledge.

4. I think any pilot that would steal a kill would be judged harshly by the group he was in. Its just rude. Thats not to say it won't happen but you would think that if the stealing pilot wanted to have some camaraderie with his fellow team, squad, or country mates that it wouldn't be the thing to do.

Last. I have been involved with 4,6,9 pilots all chasing the only enemy within sight. I am the closest plane at 800 out in a 51 and not closing. I may have a few pings on him but not able to complete the kill. Another plane overtakes my position an closes in for the kill. Now for me it just makes sense that he shoots the plane down. Not to mention that we are all laughing on the radio wondering how we are so lonely as to chase this one plane. Is this guy stealing a kill? Not in my opinion. He just has the best opportunity.

If you take off someone's wing, one of your teammates can chase his flopping plane down to the ground, shooting at it the whole time. If he ends up hitting it enough to surpass the damage you registered on it by knocking off the wing, he'll get the credit for the kill and you'll get an assist.

Yes, sometimes the people who do that will be treated harshly.


If you fly in large, groups of people though, you'll get more assists than if you fly with only a few other people or by yourself. Also, BnZ'ing will get you a lot of assists if you don't have great gunnery skills and are only able to land a few pings on your target.

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Look at it this way ... (hypothetically)

If HT determines that to take off a wing on a P-51, the wing has to take a total damage of 100 damage points (100 is a something that I made up for this example).

Now I have shot that wing and put a total of 80 damage points on the wing.

You swoop down and in a lame AoM move try to steal my kill and put a 20mm burst into the same wing.

Seeing that there is only 20 damage points left before the wing falls off, your small burst of 20mm surpasses 20 damage points and the wing separates.

The con floats and wobbles to the ground.

Score 1 kill for Slappy and deservedly so ... he did the MOST damage !!!

This is a simplistic explanation of something I think is more complex in HT's actual code but I believe that the logic is not too far off.

This is what encourages timid HitnRun Tactics.

Many times said high % damage inflictor has done so after 3 or 4 timd HitnRun passes. Small Risk High Payout.