Author Topic: Spitfires vs the IJAAF  (Read 1185 times)

Offline Widewing

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« on: February 05, 2007, 12:11:24 PM »
General Kenney was the commander of the 5th Air Force in the SWPA threater. He maintained a daily log which became the basis for his book published in 1949, titled General Kenney Reports. Kenny is viewed today as one of the greatest combat aviation innovators of his era.

From "General Kenney Reports"; April-May 1943. Kenney reports on the first encounter with Japanese fighters by RAAF Spitfire pilots, transferred to Darwin from Britain.

"The Australian fighter and bomber squadrons were slightly worse off than those of the Fifth Air Force. Two squadrons of Spitfire fighters, flown by Australian pilots trained in England, had arrived and were going into action at Darwin. They were a grand lot of lads but I was afraid they were in for a rude awakening. They had already hinted that with the Spitfire they would show us how to shoot down Jap airplanes the way it should be done. They were obsessed with the maneuverability of the Spitfire and had been trained in the maneuver type of combat, or “dogfighting.” That was all right in Europe as the Spitfire would outmaneuver anything the Germans had, but it was not good in the Pacific war, where the light Jap fighter outmaneuvered everything we had. I told Bladen, the Darwin commander, to warn them, but I was afraid those cocky rascals would do as they pleased until they learned the same lessons the rest of the fighter crowd
have had to learn-the hard way.

On May 2nd, twenty-one Jap bombers escorted by thirty fighters made a raid on Darwin. The Aussies intercepted with thirty-two Spitfires and knocked down five Jap fighters and one bomber. We lost thirteen Spitfires, seven of which were shot down; three landed at sea from engine failure; and three chased the Japs too far to sea and had to land in the water when they ran out of gas. Just what I had feared had happened. The Aussies had tried to outmaneuver the Nip fighters in the air. It couldn’t be done, even with the highly maneuverable Spitfire.
 
I sent Bostock to Darwin to talk with the kids and tell them that, if they didn’t stop that dogfighting business, I’d send them to New Guinea to serve with the Americans and learn how to fight a Jap properly. The Aussies who had been fighting the Nips for the past year or so were all sore at the Spit crowd for not taking advice. I guess they had to learn the hard way. We Americans haven’t much to say along this line, either. We hate to take advice from anyone else and seldom do."


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Angus

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 12:23:16 PM »
Look up "Killer" Caldwell's interceptions. He would even attack from below but stay at a high speed if it was a mix.
Do you have more material on this btw?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Guppy35

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 01:58:05 PM »
And those Aussies were flying heavier Spitfire Vc Trops with the big chin scoop.  Even less able to turn with a Zeke in those.

Hurri drivers learned that same lesson earlier over Burma and in the defense of Singapore.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Angus

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 03:01:23 PM »
Good accounts of the Hurry fightings in "Hurricanes over Burma".
Once the local mods got rid of the burocracy Hurry IIB by removing fixed fuel tank, several Mg's etc, it was excellently up to the game - but not turning.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Debonair

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 06:33:13 PM »
yeah, Chennault's autobiographical accout of CBI in1941/42 says just about the same.  
AFAIK Chennault's Way of a Fighter wasn't reprinted so it is hard to find, but worth looking for

Offline FTJR

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2007, 01:56:40 AM »
I cant remember which book it was, either Johnnie Johnsons, Wingleader or another book Sigh for a Merlin, author I cant remember, when they heard about the staggering losses of the RAAF, couldn't help but wonder whether it was to do with the Constant Speed Props, that were giving the RAF a lot of problems at that particular time.

Though more than likely, as was indicated, the pilots thought "they'd showem" how its done.


p.s. From  "The Spitfire, Mustang & Kittyhawk, In Australian Service"

5 shot down, 5 ditched to fuel starvation, 3 to engine failure/propeller runaways.

6 of the 8 where recovered. An immediate rethink in tactics ensued. i.e. Dogfighting was banned.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 02:21:22 AM by FTJR »
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Offline GtoRA2

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2007, 11:55:49 AM »
Widewing
 When I do a search on Amazon for that title two come up

This
General Kenney Reports by George C Kenney

and this

General Kenney Reports, A Personal History of The Pacific War by George C. Kenney

Are they the same book? The price difference is huge.

Offline Widewing

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2007, 12:45:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Widewing
 When I do a search on Amazon for that title two come up

This
General Kenney Reports by George C Kenney

and this

General Kenney Reports, A Personal History of The Pacific War by George C. Kenney

Are they the same book? The price difference is huge.


I believe these are the same book. But, don't spend a dime on either unless you want it as a collector item.

You can download a free pdf copy here: General Kenny Reports

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Debonair

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 01:48:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FTJR
I cant remember which book it was, either Johnnie Johnsons, Wingleader or another book Sigh for a Merlin, author I cant remember, when they heard about the staggering losses of the RAAF, couldn't help but wonder whether it was to do with the Constant Speed Props, that were giving the RAF a lot of problems at that particular time.

Though more than likely, as was indicated, the pilots thought "they'd showem" how its done.


p.s. From  "The Spitfire, Mustang & Kittyhawk, In Australian Service"

5 shot down, 5 ditched to fuel starvation, 3 to engine failure/propeller runaways.

6 of the 8 where recovered. An immediate rethink in tactics ensued. i.e. Dogfighting was banned.


iirc, it was in Sigh for a Merlin , Neville Duke's book or the book by that guy the was played by David Niven in the movie....JEFFREY QUILL!!!1 - LOL I REMEMBARD IT:aok :aok :aok that there were a lot of Spit V problems cause the W&B stuff had changed with the new planes, but a lot of the old erks were still using Spit I W&B  charts (or something like that)

Offline Angus

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2007, 03:15:20 PM »
Sigh for a merlin is from Alex Henshaw, and is hard to get.
I have a book from Duke, and another one from Quill, both very good.
Test pilot and Spitfire - a test pilot's story.

Highly recommended.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline GtoRA2

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2007, 03:24:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
I believe these are the same book. But, don't spend a dime on either unless you want it as a collector item.

You can download a free pdf copy here: General Kenny Reports

My regards,

Widewing


I still may buy a copy. I love stuff online but at the same time never trust it.   The little booklet Tommy Mcguire wrote about combat tactings in the pacific was online as well but its gone now as far as I can tell. So for this I will prolly buy the book, that way I have it forever.


Thanks for the link!!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 03:45:10 PM by GtoRA2 »

Offline Debonair

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2007, 05:16:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Sigh for a merlin is from Alex Henshaw, and is hard to get.
I have a book from Duke, and another one from Quill, both very good.
Test pilot and Spitfire - a test pilot's story.

Highly recommended.


i forgot to mention to you how good "Tony" Jonsson's book was:aok:aok:aok:aok:cool::cool::aok:cool::D
that good:O

Offline skycaptn

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2007, 12:05:41 AM »
All they had to do was try this game to discover it wouldnt work :)

Offline GtoRA2

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2007, 05:01:35 PM »
Widewing
 Thanks for the link, I printed that whole thing out and have not stopped reading since.


Awsome read from a General who knows his stuff.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Spitfires vs the IJAAF
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2007, 05:12:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
The little booklet Tommy Mcguire wrote about combat tactings in the pacific was online as well but its gone now as far as I can tell.


Thanks for the link!!



it's still online, just do a search for Combat Tactics in the Southwest Pacific and you'll find plenty of sites that have a copy.  If you can't just send me a PM and I'll email you a copy.


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