More Italian Fighters and a Bomber Maybe?

[IntIron]

Alright,

So, we have a decent assortment of US, German, Japanese, and Soviet planes. How about at least 4 Italian models to choose from?

The other two Italian planes I would like to see added to the arena are:

Reggiane Re.2005(Fighter)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79(Bomber)

Both planes saw action(Although only about 750 of the Re.2005's were built) and a generally fairly decent planes. The SM.79 is to the Italians what the Spitfire is the Brits, so I think it would be a decent addition to the game.


Your friendly flyer,

Bill

[titanic3]

i would like the g55 centauro. best italian fighter of war. but there was a problem, only about a 100 were produce b4 armistice. but the centauro holds 3x 20mm, and 2x 13mm (or so i heard).

[tedrbr]

I agree with titanic3 on this one.  The G.55 was the best.  About 130 completed version saw operational status before armistice.  Was favored and considered better than any other German Bf109G's.  A lightly perked plane.  Good buff interceptor.  A treat for Luffenwobble pilots as well as addition to Italian plane set.  

Not too hard a sell, only 315 N1K2's produced, and we see how prevalent they are in LW arenas!!   Besides, "The Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario was an Italian monoplane fighter/fighter-bomber for the Regia Aeronautica during the later parts of World War II. Only thirty-seven were built.."  The G.55 was produced and exported after the war.  The Re.2005 was not.

Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero (Italian: sparrowhawk):  If I was arguing for another EW bomber, this would be a good choice.  Problem is, buff pilots need a second perk-worthy ride added.  Since plane additions are so few and far between, I don't think I'd argue for an EW bomber before buff pilots got another perk ride, and you'll have plenty of argument from He-111 fans for an EW bomber.

Been argued in other threads: Thread Link

[Krusty]

I wouldn't quote that number. So far the only reference I've seen quote that is Wikipedia. I've seen other webpages quote it, but saying they got it from wiki. I know there must be some reason somebody put that on wiki in the first place, but wiki's got numbers horribly wrong in the past (all user-submitted data, rememer?)

A non-wiki site has the following to say:

Deliveries of the G55 to the 53rd Stormo and the 353rd Squadriglia of the 20th Gruppo just started when Italy surrendered to the Allies on September 8, 1943. Because of Italy's surrender, the G55 did not see combat with the Regia Aeronautica. However, factories which were building the G55's were still under the control of the Republica Sociale Italiana (Salo Republic) in northern Italy, and several thousand were ordered. The G55 became the RSI's standard aircraft for their air force. Shortages began to develope as the DB 605 A-1 engines became scarce and only 105 FIAT G55's were produced by the time the Allies overran all of Italy.

Only about 100 made, but we know from other sources (even wiki) that many sat undelivered at the factories. There were probably less than 50 in service, or less.

Hey, I'd LOVE this plane, just trying to clarify the history a bit

[Panzzer]

Cant Z1007 (where's Brady?)

[Debonair]

Originally posted by Krusty
....Hey, I'd LOVE this plane, just trying to clarify the history a bit

just to further clarify, the rest of that website says subsequent to the 105 mentioned a lot more G.55s were built before the end of the war, including a 5 cannon bird:eek::eek:and a torpedo carrying version:cool:

[Krusty]

No it says no such thing. [edit: I mean it mentions those types, but not that more were made]

http://www.comandosupremo.com/G55.html

It says "Other models developed based on the G55 which were the G55/II with 5 20mm cannons and the G55/S Torpedo Fighter, which carried one 2,176 lb Whitehead fiume torpedo beneath the fuselage. Both of these variations of the G55 flew in 1944."

Then it talks about post-war production. It says up to the allied over-running of Italy (that's after the surrender in 1943, that's all the way at the end of the war) only 105 had been produced (total).

EDIT: I don't have the book in question:

War Planes of the Second World War. Fighters; Volume Two: Author William Green. Hanover House: Garden City, New York. 1961

[tedrbr]

Actually, the Wiki info on the G.55 seemed to have been copied directly from a book or magazine article about the Centauro, but I take Krusty's point about mis-information from Wiki.

Another site however states that the G.55 *did* see combat:

Before the armistice of September 1943, G.55s had participated in the defence of Rome with the 353a Squadriglia of the Regia Aeronautica. The postarmistice operations were rnamly with the Fascist air arm's Squadriglia 'Montefusco', based at Venezia Reale, then with the three squadriglie which formed the 2� Gruppo Caccia Terrestre, but losses were heavy, as a result mainly of Allied attacks on the airfields.

http://avia.russian.ee/air/italy/fiat_centauro.php


Of course, part of the problem is the accuracy of the information and documents from a country that was being bombed and beaten by an allied push, resources being seized by occupying Germans, and the fog and confusion of war.

Were there many? No.  Did they engage in combat?  I believe they did in limited numbers --- but then, so did the N1K2.  Argue that the N1K2 also cover the N1K1's?... fine, G.55 can cover the G.50's.  


All things considered, I think the G.55 would be a valid edition to the game.  It would be a sweet little nich ride.  Not another German, American, or English plane.  A nice bomber interceptor.  Good enough a plane to be exported after the war.  Just an opinion.

[Krusty]

Oh, to be sure they saw combat. I wasn't arguing that point. I was going on about numbers, only

EDIT: Oh and just looked, turns out I own a book with some info on the G.55. According to Gunston (not the best, but still decent) only 105 were made, as well.

[tedrbr]

Betting 105 may be completed during the war number.  Or delivered.  Or went operational.  A lot of nearly finish ones were captured, or waiting to be delivered, or probably finished after armistice and were among those exported after the war (up until 1948).  

So, numbers will vary.  Operational, delivered, finished, uncompleted models, plus those that were destroyed on the ground at the factories and marshaling fields.

[Krusty]

Actually I'm betting the exact opposite. I'm betting that's the total and a large portion of that was captured at the factories before they could be delivered.

Keep in mind it was a scarce airplane.

When they talk about Me262s they say 1400 produced (or whatever) but only 800 ever got to units. When they talk about the Ta152 they say 80 produced, but only 12 saw action. When they talk about He162s, they say 300 produced but only 2 units were equipped with them (and maybe a Hitler Youth group, there's some reference to this, but precious documentation as they were burning paperwork at the time).

So when they say 105 produced I'm taking that as "were counted as finished at the factory" and whether they ever got shipped from the factory is another matter.

[TwinBoom]

who cares it was a ww2 bird add it
along with the "FRENCH" d.520
french have no birds

[Debonair]

here is G.55/S in RSI markings

kick bellybutton torpedo figher:O:aok :cool:

[IntIron]

I found the number built via this link: http://www.answers.com/topic/reggiane-re-2005. I accidentally read number ordered(750) as opposed to those built:37.


Sorry about the mistake.

Your friendly aviator,

Bill

[Krusty]

Originally posted by TwinBoom
who cares it was a ww2 bird add it
along with the "FRENCH" d.520
french have no birds

Probably because they fell so quickly, and were deemed inferior. The one plane that was actually up to standards (d.520) was the minority plane, and captured versions of it were only deemed fit as advanced trainers for LW pilots that were going to transition to the Me109.

I'm not denying the fighting spirit of the french pilots, but the invasion of france was very much a ground war (and over almost instantly).

The French aircraft served no purpose in the war, when you consider the war as a whole. It's like the Polish resistance. It was THERE, and people fought and died, but for the most part it was an ant under the wheel of the Nazi war machine.

I don't see a place for french planes in this game, at this time.