Author Topic: Bf109 exhaust fumes in cockpit (Read 1247 times)

ramzey · « **on:** February 12, 2007, 08:54:08 PM »

Im looking for info , how often and how big problem it cosed.
I know there was a problem with buhons and avia's. but im not sure about regular german models.

any hints appreciated

Charge · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2007, 02:41:31 AM »

Involved in some anti-LW debate on some other board, eh?

However, there was a Finnish 109 pilot who had forgot his oxygen mask when he went on an intercept mission and when he went higher he had to hold his mouth against the oxygen outlet to remain conscious because of thin air. He did pass out but regained consciousness begore he hit the ground. The story is probably on Finnish Virtualpilots' web page.

This leads me to believe there was no exhaus fume problems in properly serviced 109s. It was probably a problem in some individual aircraft of various manufacturers and was caused by airleaks in gaskets between cockpit and engine compartment. Hope this helps.

-C+

Karnak · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2007, 02:45:54 AM »

I know that La-5s and Typhoons both had this problem pretty bad.

Haven't heard anything about it regarding any other aircraft though.

gripen · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2007, 04:44:03 AM »

Several WWII planes had problems with exhaust fumes. As an example the Brewsters in Finland required some modifications to decrease exhaust fumes in cockpit (same was noted in the British tests). Apparenly the Bf 109G also had some problems; below is a quote from "Lentäjän Näkökulma II":

"Pienemmillä, koneen vastuksen kannalta edullisimmilla, nopeuksilla lentämistä hankaloitti sytytystulppien nokeentuminen ja ohjaamoon tulviva pakokaasu"

Perhaps Charge can translate that to avoid anti-LW debate.

gripen

Charge · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2007, 10:32:12 AM »

No please go ahead Gripen. Nice fuel to flames and I could spoil it if I touch it.

-C+

Benny Moore · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:37:36 AM »

I've never heard about it in wartime P-38s, but back in 2000, Lefty Gardner's P-38 had a bit of exhaust in the cockpit when doing the runup. In the video, the narrator says something like, "I was more than a bit startled at the smoke that entered the cockpit, but Lefty shrugged it off with a nod."

Karnak · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:54:00 AM »

Yeah, I wouldn't expect it often if at all from aircraft that don't have an engine in front of the cockpit.

(I was gonna say multi-engined, but then I thought of thr German and Italian tri-motors)

Benny Moore · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2007, 12:14:12 PM »

In the case of the P-38, the smoke would almost certainly come from the heater (both heaters on later models). When the engines caught fire, fire and smoke could come from the heaters and fill the cockpit.

I would hazard a guess that some slight exhaust fumes in the cockpit was a normal thing for an airplane of the era and would not significantly affect the pilot. Certainly I've never heard fumes included in any criticism of the Me-109, even when the pilots complained about the lack of comfort in the cockpit.

Charge · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2007, 12:30:14 PM »

"I would hazard a guess that some slight exhaust fumes in the cockpit was a normal thing for an airplane of the era"

You might not believe this Benny, but for once I agree with you. I find it hard to believe if there was not anykind of smell from engine compartment, fuel, oil, exhaust, coolant etc.

Maybe that was the case in early Tiffies too. To my knowledge none were lost because of pilot passing out because of fumes although it was considered a problem (maybe in door cockpits only, dunno..).

I'd say that an older aircraft with tired fuselage and overly vibrating engine could well develop a leak to firewall from which the exhaust could seep into cockpit. Be it fatal or not I'd find it disturbing...

-C+

Karnak · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2007, 12:33:25 PM »

Bob Tuck was about to go up in a Tiffie for a test flight when a phone call pulled hi away, so he told another pilot to take it.

That pilot augered it so hard there were only bits of him recovered, but in testing a piece of his liver Tuck said they found enough carbon monoxide to kill an elephant.

gripen · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2007, 02:26:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Charge
No please go ahead Gripen. Nice fuel to flames and I could spoil it if I touch it.

Wasn't it you who started to talk about anti-LW debate because ramzey just asked the question?

Anyway, the quote says that exhaust fumes did enter to the cockpit of the Bf 109G in cruise.

gripen

Viking · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2007, 06:57:18 PM »

The only complaints I have heard about fumes in the cockpit of the 109 was about propellant gasses from the engine cannon.

ramzey · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:05:24 PM »

I found this interesting cuz i never heard about 109 problem with exhaust fumes.
Unless someone show me a book about Do335 , and autor there state 109's have this problem and was not solved till end of war.

Debonair · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:25:52 PM »

a lot of modern piston planes use the exhaut shroud as a heat source for 'pit heating.
bad idead if you got any corosion in there.
i just wear a hat...

MiloMorai · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2007, 10:22:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Viking
The only complaints I have heard about fumes in the cockpit of the 109 was about propellant gasses from the engine cannon.

If that is the case, then exhaust fumes could certainly find their way into the cockpit.