Piracy: A general discussion

[Benny Moore]

[Enter Mini D stage left.  Enter Judge stage right.  Judge sits down]

Mini D: Corporations are honest; there is no such thing as price fixing.

Judge: I hearby find this corporation guilty of price fixing.

Mini D: Well, that's an isolated case!  It's not the norm.  Normally, corporations are honest.

[Audience laughs.  Curtain falls.]

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Something as harmless looking as region codes are nothing but the industry limiting free competition. They've fixed the prices on different levels on different continents and the region codes are there to make sure people are not buying their media from the cheapest provider, or at earlyest release time.

This is necessary because globally the profit margins in cd/dvd sales are marginal up to the extent of limiting competition. The price differences between countries is a result of central pricing, not normal competitive practises.

I know a couple audio/video retailers so that's straight from the horses mouth. On the rare cases where actual discounts have been made, it's a question of the provider selling the goods with a negative profit to attract customers - hoping they'll buy something more when they enter the shop. It's called milk advertising here (sell milk on a negative profit, gain from the candybars customers buy on the side).

No matter where you go within a country, a new cd from an artist will cost the same on $1-2 scale. There are no competing providers, no small studios releasing cheaper copies of the same music God forbid bigger ones. Interenstingly enough when cd was first introduced to replace LP, consumers got a promise that once sales went up the cd price will drop back to LP price levels or below because of cheaper production costs. Since that promise cd prices have gone up about 40% and the LP still costs about a quarter of a comparative cd - despite having higher printing costs and expensive logistics.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Mini D
Sweet vulcan... you've brought up a settled lawsuit. Any that went the other way? Where is napster... do you remember that organization? You are still using instances to explain the norm while insisting that the norm on the other side is anything but. That's just odd.

ahh huh...

Originally posted by Mini D
Price fixing, illegal buisness practices... come on. That is pure rhetoric. It doesn't even merit an argument because it's so pathetic.

I'm suprised you replied, 24 hours earlier it didn't even merit an argument...

[Mini D]

See Rules #4, #5

[Rolex]

Here is one of several essays at a site about "piracy" and DRM written from an author's viewpoint. One of the key points is that it is inappropriate to use the word "piracy" in the discussion, since the definition of piracy and copyright infringement are not the same. Ironically, the word "piracy" appears in the title of this thread and is now used commonly in articles and discussions, thanks to a little social engineering by those who instigated DRM.

Link >>

Note: there a many essays on the topic by the author.

[republic]

Originally posted by Rolex
One of the key points is that it is inappropriate to use the word "piracy" in the discussion, since the definition of piracy and copyright infringement are not the same.

Excellent comment!  Just because I want to backup something I legally purchased, does not mean I need to run out and buy a parrot, eyepatch, and start rambling piraty missives.

Arrrggg...

[Mini D]

Originally posted by Rolex
Here is one of several essays at a site about "piracy" and DRM written from an author's viewpoint. One of the key points is that it is inappropriate to use the word "piracy" in the discussion, since the definition of piracy and copyright infringement are not the same. Ironically, the word "piracy" appears in the title of this thread and is now used commonly in articles and discussions, thanks to a little social engineering by those who instigated DRM.

Link >>

Note: there a many essays on the topic by the author.

Skuzzy made the title of the thread, not me.

And... vulcan:

I never said the RIAA was loaded with saints. I said there were no saints in the situation. Citing RIAA shortcomings does nothing to excuse the actions of others. Absolutely nothing. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. If you think the price is too high, don't buy it.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by republic
Excellent comment!  Just because I want to backup something I legally purchased, does not mean I need to run out and buy a parrot, eyepatch, and start rambling piraty missives.

Arrrggg...

But... we still can, right? If we want to?


ARGH! 'Tis a piratical adventure of mayhem, says I!

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by Mini D
Citing RIAA shortcomings does nothing to excuse the actions of others. Absolutely nothing. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. If you think the price is too high, don't buy it.

This is what consumers have been doing for years already. Guess what, the reduction in sales will give RIAA/MPAA all the more reasons to push restrictive legislation on consumers. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if they will soon manage to introduce a mandatory quota for a month (buy 4 cd's a month for $25.99 a piece or else..).

Luckily there are still unbribed people left: Digital fair use bill introduced to congress

[Mini D]

Now... wait a minute. I thought that freely exchanging music helped sales. Are you suggesting that sales might have dropped recently?

Amazing how that turns depending on the point you're trying to make.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by Mini D
Now... wait a minute. I thought that freely exchanging music helped sales. Are you suggesting that sales might have dropped recently?

Amazing how that turns depending on the point you're trying to make.

They haven't dropped a bit, the growth has declined slightly going hand in hand with the price raises. Amazing how you try to twist consumer protest for something it's not. The only reason why sales MIGHT actually drop is when consumers finally get enough of the bullying they're getting.

Truly revolting.

Free exchange would help music sales unless consumers would start to protest against the corporations, all the law suits, extortion and overpricing. Free services like Pandora help people to discover artists and guess what, buy their albums after listening them digitally for free.

I haven't bought any media related purchase for 3 last years as a direct protest of the industry practises. That's 3 years of missing enthusiast shopping. And I'm not alone.

[republic]

Originally posted by Mini D
Now... wait a minute. I thought that freely exchanging music helped sales. Are you suggesting that sales might have dropped recently?

Amazing how that turns depending on the point you're trying to make.

I would say that the reduced sales, at least on the music side, is from consumer's new power to CHOOSE what they want.  I nolonger have to buy an entire 16.00+ cd to get the one of two songs I really want.  I can go on iTunes or the many other alternatives and buy only what I want, for .99 each...or the whole cd for 9.99.

On the movie industry side...I would ask the studios to look at the mediocre movies they have been releasing.  I haven't been to the theater in a very long time...for no reason other than that there has been nothing worth seeing.  Movies may be losing money, but traditional TV is basking in the aura of DVD sales.  Several series have been saved because of DVD sales, including one of my favorites "The Office".

The RIAA is losing their control of the market, so they are panicking.  An artist can create their music, record it, and publish it themselves through iTunes.  No need for a record label.

[Mini D]

If a drop in sales corresponded to a drop in piracy, you'd be right. But when a drop in sales corresponds to an increase in piracy, you don't have a leg to stand on.

You are starting to slowly grasp the concept of cause and effect. Eventually you will even understand why piracy gives the RIAA the power to get any legislation passed they deam necessary to "protect their product".

If consumption was dropping with sales they wouldn't have an argument.

[republic]

Originally posted by Mini D

You are starting to slowly grasp the concept of cause and effect.

Your attempts at appearing superior are amusing, but does the bravado of your argument mask a lack of substance?

Do you have some sort of unbiased source for this rampant increase in piracy you speak of?  Piracy in the United States where the RIAA's legislation will have an effect.  Not piracy in a nation which has never, nor will ever, care about US copyright laws.

I've yet to see a record label go under because of lack of profit.  I've yet to see a Brittany Spears actually do an honest day's work....but no matter.

For the artist, the new digital delivery is a boon.  One artist I listen to (Derek Webb) allowed his latest cd to be downloaded for free for a limited time, and allowed those downloaded mp3's to be shared freely.  Over 80,000 free copies were downloaded, and who knows how many shared after that.  Yet...this artist still survives, despite being a relative unknown.

Piracy is real.  I'm not arguing that.  Piracy should be fought....but not at the expense of the rest of us who willingly pay for our media.  Why should those who pay, be forced to pay more...while those who steal...will always be able to steal?

There is a balance, and my argument is that intrusive DRM, (Starforce, vastly decreased performance, crippled functionality, ect) is not the answer.  Do you not agree?

How many rights, as a consumer, should we give up to protect a corporation?  And to a lesser extent, the artist?  This is the question who's answer will effect us greatly in the years to come.

[Mini D]

Let's give this a try:

Is there any music or video that you cannot download for free from the internet?

You want data to show you that it can be done? Why? Why not just try it. Get bittorent and see what is accessible to you. Hell, just use google and see what you can get. Look and see what's available on the uunet. Don't even try to pretend that piracy is just a myth and nobody really does it.

And record labels go under all the time.

Accessibility and availability replace the need to pay for a product. This is basic economics. It's not some outlandish stretch of the imagination.