The hardest part of home-building a PC...?

[llama]

Having built about 100 PCs so far in life, these are the things that really continue to aggravate me at times.

1. Motherboard Standoffs and screws. Some have to be insulated. Some already are. Sometimes the board doesn't come with enough insulating washers. Sometimes you need to screw threaded nuts into the case, and then screw the motherboards into the threaded nuts, which can themselves become lose. Sometimes the case has a raised "bump" to accept a screw, but the motherbord doesn't have a hole there for a screw, but it DOES have electrical components that now need insulating against the case with cardboard, electrical tape, or something. Annoying beyond belief.

2. Sharp edges inside the case. Things are getting better in this department, as vendors "roll the steel edges" most of the time to eliminate sharp corners, but I still usually wind up with a bloody fingertip at least once every few months from what looks like the world's worst papercut that I never even felt when I got it. Nothing like bleeding all over the computer you're building.

3. Cable routing. You want the cables to be neat and organized, but there needs to be some "play" in them so you can actually work inside the case. I hate fixing a whitebox PC where some doofus thought he was being neat with cables, but I have to cut all his zip ties because the cables are too tight to even remove and replace a hard drive. Power supply lines used to always be almost too short, but now I think they're getting to be too long - I need to coil cables up inside cases now.

4. Front Panel connections. This has been mentioned. Asus now has a good solution: some of their boards come with a block of keyed pins and a removable, well-labeled connector. Just attach the case wires to the connector, then plug the connector into the block of pins. Easy!

5. Selecting parts for the build. When it's my system, or a client is paying me by the hour to thoroughly research mainboards, video cards, drives, rams, ETC, I actually love this. BUT when I'm not getting paid for it, I always worry that I'll select a mainboard that has some weird flaw that everyone is all talking about on some obscure forum, but I don't have the time to find that discussion, learn about it, and select another board. I speak from experience here folks.

Good thread.

-Llama

[flakbait]

You want horror? I'll give you horror!

My first rig was an AMD Socket A and like republic, I barked a knuckle. Screwdriver slid off the HSF clip, missed the mobo (thank the Gods!) and my knuckle met the power supply edge with a nice whack!. Only this wasn't one with the newer HSF clip that actually holds a flathead screwdriver in place. Nope! This was the U-bend type with NO flat surfaces at all! Thankfully HSF clips these days actually have a little keeper on the clip to keep that screwdriver in place. Still makes me clausty every time I have to install a new HSF though. Always feels like I'm about ready to snap the mobo.

Radeon 9800 Pro install in my current rig gave me absolute nightmares. Not because my case is crowded, and cable routing was no big deal at all. No, it gave me a fit because when I slid the drive cage back in, the power plug on the HDD missed the back edge plug on the 9800 by a whisker! Moved the HDD after bonking the 9800 twice and all was well.

Fast forward until last Nov. HSF on the Radeon conked out because a Mongolian Sheep Herder designed the thing. So instead of spending mongo bucks on a new vid card, I spring for a nice Zalman VF-700C video cooler. Big copper flower, 10C lower temps... ohhhhhhh yeeeaaahhh! One tiny problem: the 9800 HSF is held on by these tiny little plastic clip feet. Out come the wire cutters and up goes the blood pressure! Nearly knocked off several small solder lumps getting the *$^#* off. Reinstalling it was almost as much fun. I accidentally touched the AGP connector to some part of the mobo and the little ready light blinked, then went out. CRAP! I get the Radeon Beast back in where it belongs, flip the switch aaannnddd? Nada. Hmmm, couldn't have fried the mobo, so! I kill the P/S switch, smack the On button, toggle the P/S switch again and viola! It lives! Been running fat and happy ever since. If I ever have to fight that thing back out, I'm gutting the case first! Rip the drive cage out, unplug a mess of stuff, THEN cart it off.

Even more fun than front panel connections are the top panel ones! I've got what looks like long black vines coming down inside the case, top to bottom. They connect to a pair of Firewire and a pair of USB plugs on the top of my case. Right now, only the USB ones work. You see, the USB connections are standard plugs (like a Molex) but the Firewire are individual wires! 12 of the little suckers each! Never hooked 'em up, and besides, if I really want Firewire the USB bracket in the back has it.

My all-time favorite has to be the KT-266 mobo in my ancient rig. IDE connections directly under the drive cage, blocked by everything under the sun! HDD, floppy, vid card, wiring; you couldn't unplug the IDE cables to swap out a bad one unless you did it in the right order AND removed both HDDs. If you didn't unplug and replug the cables in the right order, it wouldn't recognize any IDE device at all. And people wonder why I use four-letter language when discussing MSI mobos...


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Flakbait [Delta6]

[Blagard]

Originally posted by Krusty
I just wish Creative Labs would make a header on their cards for that damn front panel plug. Only my motherboards have had them so far. I can't plug it into my Audigy.

I once spent hours trying to find if any of the board pins took some sort of adapter for front panel connections. I was convinced such a board maker as Creative would surely do something, but had to admit defeat. Tough on Creative because it simply put me off their boards!

On an earlier PC I had jack plugs on the front panel leads that ended up popping out the back of the PC to plug into the normal jack sockets on my soundblaster. Looks messy and I decided never again!

CPU heatsink clips always seem to need too much force to fit. I find myself checking to see if anything is in the way obstructing. It's ages before I get round to applying the necessary force!

I try and research the components before finally buying to make sure there are not going to be conflicts, such as two bits of hardware trying to occupy the same space!

I double, treble and probably quadruple check as I build to make sure everything is right and proper. I think I have built myself about four now and none failed to start correctly first time (Touches wood!)

I only tend to buy established and proven hardware and leave the geeks to test the newer stuff to find out whats good and whats bad!

[Brenjen]

I only dread researching the parts I want to use, then sweating out the RMA time. Once you can't send the stuff back it's yours no matter how crappy it is. That's why I love Newegg; 30 days money back & 1 year replacement & it's always quick & painless with them.

 My latest build had me hand wringing over which mobo to choose; I chose poorly apparently. I tried to get some user input but nobody wanted to tell how their mobo's performed. Buncha A-holes.

Edit: #5 on llama's post I 100% whole heartedly agree with. Same problem, only I always hate the research; haven't ever enjoyed it yet....the actual build is what I enjoy.

[715]

The consensus seems to be that system building is easy.  My experience is the opposite.  Sure, except for the aforementioned front panel connections and the CPU fan, physically assembling a PC is pretty easy.  My problem is getting it to work.  My last build wouldn't even boot because the SPD of the high priced memory was set too high for my Mobo.  Required hours of testing with MEMTEST86 to find manual memory timings that would work.  Then the system was never stable under Win98 and I was forced to upgrade to WinXP.  I also went through 3 different sound cards before getting one that didn't cause problems with AH.  Then I had to move cards and USB devices around trying to get IRQs separate.  Even had bizarre problems with certain USB devices on certain USB ports causing the system to fail to boot.

It's time for me to build a new system.  I'd forgo building and buy a Dell, but Dell seems to be a bad deal nowadays (5 years or so ago they were much more reasonable and used good components, now they are pricey and seem to use low performance components).  So I guess I will be messing up a Core 2 Duo build in the near future (which, from reading reports on Anandtech.com, appears to be easy to do).  It will be a guessing game trying to select components that are compatible.  (An example is memory- Intels web page gives a compatible memory list for their mobo, but it refers to the chips, not the stick manufacturer.. how do you find which stick uses which chips?  Fun things like that.)  Then there's the weekend long process of reinstalling all your software and getting it to actually work.  Hmmm.. mabye I've talked myself out of a new system.  I can live with 10 fps in AH, right?  

715

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Blagard


CPU heatsink clips always seem to need too much force to fit. I find myself checking to see if anything is in the way obstructing. It's ages before I get round to applying the necessary force!

Agreed completely!
And every time I deal with one I cant help but think of about a half dozen different ways to attach the damn thing that would be alot simpler and a ton less aggrivating

[llama]

Originally posted by 715
Then I had to move cards and USB devices around trying to get IRQs separate.  

Ah, this one was always a problem in the DOS/Win98 days: IRQs!

I can remember in the all-ISA days, each ISA card would have jumpers or DIP switches to let you manually specify an IRQ. Good!

Then when PCI slots came out, motherboards would designate what IRQ was given to each slot, and sometimes when there were more slots than IRQs, the IRQ was shared! But DOS and Win98 never really let you share IRQs with most components. Whoops!

So you wound up doing what I called the "PCI Slot Do See Do," of juggling cards around until you found a combination that allowed everything to work properly. Or almost properly.

This is one way where XP really was better. Lots of virtual IRQs, and they could be shared most of the time. I never even THINK about IRQs any more, which is a miracle.

-Llama

[Skuzzy]

You stil lhave to be careful with sound card interrupts Llama, but I agree for the most part about other IRQ's.

Still, best system performance is obtained when IRQ's are not shared.  I know you know that, but many may not.

715, sounds like you went with some early AMD (VIA, NForce2 and earlier) motherboard.  It was not until recently AMD based systems did not require some amount of tweaking, depending on the other components you bought.

The only systems I have built which have had any issues at all were AMD based (200Mhz memory bus that could not run 200Mhz..).  Every Intel based system I have built has not had a single issue and worked the first time, every time.

To avoid all those nasty types of problems you just do a little homework.  Fiond people who have built systems using those parts.  There are always bleeding edge folks that will take out most of the pain of building a system for you.

[eagl]

I have to agree with most of the comments here.

Picking the right parts is just as important as how you put them together.  A little research and reports of success using the exact same parts you're going to buy can save you a lot of heartache in a system build.

The other thing I'll add is that on occasion, I'll end up fighting the OS install just as badly as I fought the cpu heatsink or front panel connections.

Another tip - don't bother getting a floppy drive unless you get one of those floppies that is also a 10-in-1 media card reader.  If you someday really need a floppy drive, you can find external USB floppies for under $20.  They'll work great the one time you need one, and then you can detach it and toss it back in the closet where it belongs.

Don't go cheapo on the power supply.  Read power supply reviews until you find a review that seems to actually put the power supplies through rigorous testing, and then get one that both performs well and doesn't make a lot of noise.  I have 2 seasonic power supplies that I bought based on multiple great reviews and they are quite and work great, but there are others that are just as good.  You just need to do the research first and do not rely on "reviews" that simply plug them in to see if they work.  The same goes for any other bits of hardware.

I like aluminum cases for their weight and cool-factor, plus aluminum cases often have the neatest features like clip-on tool-less and screwless hard drive brackets, removable HD cages, etc, but you'll pay extra and aluminum can be damaged easier than steel.  I recommend at the very least a 120mm intake case fan that blows directly across the hard drives.  This should give you good airflow without being loud, and hard drive life can be dramatically extended if you keep them cool with direct intake airflow.  Consumer hard drives are not usually rated for continuous operation and the bearings can't take the heat from being run 24 hrs a day unless you keep them nice and cool with direct airflow.

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by republic
Remember the force required to put a heatsink on an AMD socket A?  I bloodied many a knuckle fooling with those stupid things...

lol yup, still got one in the closet, first PC I build 800mhz


I say the front panel stuff is the biggest pain, especially if the MB book is not detailed with good diagrams / pics.


some heatsyncs are a pain, and some people do not know how to properly add thermal paste (though many new heatsynce have past pre-applied now-adays)

[eagl]

More comments/tips

Don't bother with a second CDROM/DVD drive unless you know you'll use it.  I use my second cd drive so rarely that it doesn't even work anymore.  It worked great 3 years ago when I first installed it but I almost never used it so one day I discovered that not only does it not work, I have no idea when it failed.

Speed adjustable fans are your friend.  Set them just below the speed where you can hear them, and see if that keeps things cool enough.  A well built computer shouldn't sound like a vacuum cleaner.

If you use an external USB/firewire/eSATA drive, turn that sucker off when you're not using it because it won't last very long if you don't.  External hard drive cases rarely have enough cooling so running them all the time will burn them up, losing all the data you put on them.  For that matter, if you buy an external drive enclosure, get one that is metal intead of plastic, and preferrably has a fan.

When you set up the computer, disable all the mobo features in the BIOS that you won't be using BEFORE you install the operating system.  If you're not going to use that secondary PATA controller, the onboard sound, second ethernet port, or SATA 3,4,5,6, disable them before you install the OS otherwise you'll end up loading a bunch of drivers and reserving a lot of IRQs that you don't need.  That slows down your system.

Multiple monitors are awesome.  I can't imagine using a single monitor at home anymore.  I saw a deal for a nice looking 19" LCD monitor for $150 yesterday, and that would make a really nice second monitor.  Get a good one for your primary and hook up the cheapest LCD you can find for a secondary monitor.  Also, DVI is better than analog no matter what the scoffers say, so don't worry about LCD refresh rates and you should buy monitors that have DVI inputs if you go LCD.

Everyone has mice preferences, but do NOT use a conventional ball mouse.  Get a freaking laser beam.  I really like the cheapo laser microsoft wheel mouse, on sale for $15ish, and a nice alternative if you want more buttons is their laser wheelmouse explorer which is the same thing plus two more side buttons.

Artic silver of various sorts are better heatsink pastes than they used to be.  The latest ones (even artic silver 5) are not nearly as dangerous electrically as the original artic silver.  As long as you're not spreading it all over the place you shouldn't have any problems and shouldn't be too worried about it.

Motherboard insulating washers and spacers can throw off the alignment of your video and sound card, so after you mount the motherboard to the mobo tray, immediately test-fit all the expansion cards to see how they line up.  If they don't line up right, take it all apart and re-do it right.  If you dont' do this, you'll finish a lengthy build process and find out you can't get the soundcard mounting bracket to line up properly and you'll have to take everything apart and start over with the basic mobo mounting.  So test-fit this immediately after mounting the mobo.  (I learned this the hard way more than once)

[republic]

Remember having to use memmaker and trying to squeeze every last kilobyte of that first 640k?  Ahh...those were the days.

[Airscrew]

Originally posted by republic
Remember having to use memmaker and trying to squeeze every last kilobyte of that first 640k?  Ahh...those were the days.

not even that,  I remember editing my sys and autoexc.bat to load the minimum so I could play a game that needed 500k of memory.   Memmaker came later and made it a little easier.   Of course I could have upgraded from 1mg of ram to 2mg for only $150.   I also remember my first CD-Rom,  Creative Labs, Single Speed CD-ROM, $250 that I installed in my Packard-Hell  386/25, 60mg HD

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Airscrew
not even that,  I remember editing my sys and autoexc.bat to load the minimum so I could play a game that needed 500k of memory.   Memmaker came later and made it a little easier.   Of course I could have upgraded from 1mg of ram to 2mg for only $150.   I also remember my first CD-Rom,  Creative Labs, Single Speed CD-ROM, $250 that I installed in my Packard-Hell  386/25, 60mg HD

Heh. I remember that.

Had a game "Strike Commander"

First I couldnt get it to run. then I managed to get it to run but without sound. then finally I got everything running.

I swear I had almost as much fun messing with the config.sys and autoexec.bat just getting the game to run right as I did actually playnig the game

[Reschke]

Yep same game and same situations in editing the config.sys and autoexec.bat files. I remember having to do that in XCom as well and X-Wing when it first came out way back in the days around 1993.