Author Topic: 3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran  (Read 1592 times)

Offline babek-

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2007, 05:13:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ~Caligula~
us israelis don`t like the mullahs either.
would that mean we have something in common?


Something? Much more than only "something".

But it should be also clear that in the moment Iran is attacked by a foreign nation, the iranians will end their inner political fighting and support the actual regime.

The same happened when Saddam and his arab hordes tried to invade Iran.

Offline midnight Target

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2007, 06:06:33 PM »
Is it true that the temporary head of state in Israel is a Muslim?

Offline ~Caligula~

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2007, 06:08:42 PM »
wouldn`t it be wise to think about what is the goal of that foreign nation?
coz as it stands right now,it is the iranians treatening israel openly with mass murder.

basically what you are saying,it was the right thing to do for germans to fight to the last kid against the allies,defending their totally f*ucked up regime...
in a 1000 years it won`t make sense to me.
and while we`re at it,why don`t they fight the mullahs while it`s not too late?
they`re closer to being nuked at this point,than anybody else on this planet.
can`t anyone see it over there?

Offline ~Caligula~

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2007, 06:12:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Is it true that the temporary head of state in Israel is a Muslim?


i haven`t heard of that,but a the first ever arab israeli minister was put in office just recently as science minister.

Offline babek-

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2007, 06:57:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ~Caligula~
wouldn`t it be wise to think about what is the goal of that foreign nation?


Which nation do you mean? USA?
It would be another point of view if the Iraq war has not happened.
But now the iranians saw the difference between the official goals of the foreign country USA (democraty, human rights, peace, security, justice, wealth, at least stable living conditions) and the real effects (chaos at the brink of a civil war, ethnical and religious killings, suicide bombings every day).

As Mr. Putin said to Mr. Bush in 2006 in a conference "We dont want the kind of democracy as we see actually in Iraq".

Quote
Originally posted by ~Caligula~
coz as it stands right now,it is the iranians treatening israel openly with mass murder.


Give me a quote, where a member of the Council of the Guardians said that Iran would attack Israel and mass murder the people living there. A clear quote and not an interpretated "translation" of western propaganda.

I can understand that for you israel is the centre of the world but Iran has other much more dangerous enemies and Israel is really not so important.

1st place are the sunnite arabs and their sunnite terrorgroups - like Taliban and Al Kaida. They define the iranians as subhumans who have to be killed - very much like Hitler said about homoxeuals, jews, gipsies and communists in the Nazi-time. Just read some statements of this creature Al Zarkawi about how to eliminate all shi ites, because they are subhumans who have no right to live.

Then also the sunnite Pakistan, which is a direct neighbor of Iran and not only has nukes but also an instable government. Its the main supporter of the Talibans and responsible for the fact that they are getting stronger again in the pashtuni provinces in Afghanistan.

The last thing Iran would do is attacking Israel with military force. Israel is very useful for Iran, because it keeps the arabs busy. If Israel will be eliminated Iran would have to face the arabs alone.

Then to your question:
"and while we`re at it,why don`t they fight the mullahs while it`s not too late?"

Unlike Israel or the arab countries Iran was not created after WW1 or WW2. Iran is an 2500 year old country. It never has been a colony like the arabs after WW1. Yes - it was conquered some times during its rich history - for example by Alexander the Macedon, the Arabs, the Mongols - but it never stopped to exist. In all this time structures of families have developed. These old structures were ruling Iran and are ruling Iran still until today.
And the main interest is to gain power and become more rich and not to conquer or destroy foreign territory or people.

And its not so easy to say "Fight THE mullahs" because there are not THE mullahs.

Iran is ruled by families, many of them being influential no matter who ruled Iran - the Shahs of the Quadjars, the pahlevis or the mullahregime.

Ahmadinedjad, who comes from a poor family tried to place members of his family in important positions, but he failed in the last elections in 2006. His innerpolitical power in Iran is breaking apart.

If there is no stabilizing effect - like a foreign attack - he will fail soon.

One last thing - some people seem to forget easily:

Iran has also a tradition in trying to create a democracy by its own. During WW1 the Iranians created a parliament.
And in the 50ties a great iranian nearly managed to bring Iran to Democracy.
Prime Minister Mossadegh, a descendant of the old Quadjar dynasty which Shahs ruled Iran for centuries, deposed the Pahlevi Shah Reza and sent him to italian exile. It was an unbloody revolution.
Instead of declaring him as a new Shah (which he could easily, because of he was a member of the Quadjar-line) or a dictator he tried to make a democracy.
Check per google for the keyword "Operation Ajax" who destroyed the iranian democracy.

So the iranians of today really wish that Iran finally becomes a democracy. But a democracy made by iranians in Iran and not bombed by foreigners and installed by a puppet regime.

Offline ~Caligula~

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2007, 10:21:34 AM »
i accept your points to some degree.
i don`t and won`t even pretend to know or understand iranian history or way of thinking of iranians. all i can say: when the pres of iran talks about wiping israel off the map,it gets me nervous. they say the holocaust is a mith, and hold conferences to prove it never happened,or not in the scale pictured. i grew up hearing stories about it, not from tv or books, but from my own grandparents and other relatives that survived it. i refuse to believe they lied to me, because they are part of some shady conspiracy controlled by the elders of zion.so the current iranian stand on the matter deeply offends me.

i say if iran wanted to defend herself from radical sunni aggression,they could find allies in the west,or even israel, instead of doing what they are doing now.

Offline babek-

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2007, 12:23:36 PM »
1. No one doubts that the Nazis killed millions of humans in their concentration camps, only because they were homosexuals, jews, gipsies or communists. And not only the german nazis. Many other nations in the world eagerly supported them. Directly - by delivering jews to them or indirectly by supporting their racist ideas.
Any discussion if 6 million or 2 million or 10 million were killed is ridiculous, because it remains a dark chapter in history of mankind.
And still today we see this dark racism when neo-nazi idiots run around.


2. This myth-thing.
The iranian word was translated as "myth" in western media.
Ahmadinedjad said that in some countries in Europe the Holocaust was put on a level of [and now you can translate the word also as] holy thing and any questioning or discussion about it can bring you into jail.
As much as I dont like his style he is right in this point. In Germany there are strict laws which put the people in jail (while in USA some funny white racist idiots are running in self made Nazi uniforms).
But even Ahmadinedjad has no doubt about the Holocaust. His argumentation is another one. I read his letters written to Bus and Merkel.
First he put on the question if there was a Holocaust. Then, after getting the confirmation, that such a crime happened, he demands that those who commited the crime should be punished.
And so he finish this "logic" with "When the germans and europeans have commited this crime they have to give land to jews and not the arabs in palestine."
This seems to be nonsense but for teh arabs this is great to hear. So he can manipulate the arab fanatics to make their stupid wars. And as long the arabs are fighting each other Iran is save.

And to make this clear:  I agree that Ahmadinedjad is an idiot - but he is our idiot. We are not the only country which has to deal with an idiotic president :)

3. Irans has a deep mistrust to their neighbors and so called allies.
That has also historical reasons. There was too much betrayal in the past. In both World Wars Iran declared itself neutral and was finally attacked and invaded by so called friends.
When they managed to kick out the Shah in an unbloody revolution again their friends betrayed them, destroying the iranian democracy, installing the terrorregime of the Shah and creating the Gestapo-like imperial secret police - the SAVAK.

The islamic revolution was not done by some religious fanatics but by desperate people who wanted to end the terror of the Shah and his SAVAK. They finally ended in the next terror regime - one which was worser than the Shah terror. Thats also one reason why this time there is no revolution in Iran. Because now they want to know what comes after kicking off the actual terror regime.

Also I dont see anything useful in the UN and its declarations or demands. The same UN has accepted during Iran-Iraq-War that Saddam used gas weapons on iranian soldiers and iranian cities and by the Veto of some Veto-nations (defining themself as the civilized world) any declarion against (in these days) the good Iraq was prevented.

130.000 iranian soldiers died because of the gas. And many iranians still suffer today because they were so unlucky to survive the gas attacks.
You mentioned that you grew up hearing about the crimes of Nazis who killed your people by gas. Believe me, especially after the iranian experience of the civilized world in the question how to act when Iran was under massive gas attacks I can understand that very good.

You feel nerveous about Ahmadinedjad. So do I. But even if he would have nuclear missiles he wouldnt have the power to give an attack order. Thats another fact ignored in western media. The president of Iran has not the real power. Chatami - who wanted to make some liberal reforms - was not allowed to and Ahmadinedjad also not. The real power comes from the Council of the Guardians and although they are made of religious people they are nothing else than greedy corrupt capitalists.

And yes - normally I would agree that there are 3 nations in the region which should be allies: The non-arabic Turkey, Israel and Iran. Such a game was played already in the past. During the arab wars against Israel it was iran who delivered oil to Israel. And during Iran Iraq war it was Israel which delivered bitterly needed spare parts to Iran - especially for the 250 F-4E Phantom Iran once had. That was essential for the iranian warfare to kick out the arab invaders from iranian territory.

Offline 1K3

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2007, 01:34:08 PM »
I think I learned a lot today babek - caligula

Offline Torque

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2007, 06:24:52 PM »
babek, the truth doesn't play out well when it comes to iran here.

the mainstream media avoids it like the plague as well, it would be rather hard to sell viagra with all the chicken-hawks falling from the sky due to patriotic embolisms.

Offline Anyone

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2007, 06:42:03 PM »
I can see any attack by Israel vs Iran ending up just like Israels failed attack on Lebanon (ooooh sorry Hezbollah)..... a total mess, making it worse than before.

And people say USA's foreign policy is bad... well Israel blows up all its neighbors and wonders why its in such a mess...hmmm

Its about time that someone stood up to US and its Puppet Israel aggression.

Offline john9001

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3 Gulf states agree to IAF overflights en route to Iran
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2007, 06:59:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
it would be rather hard to sell viagra with all the chicken-hawks falling from the sky due to patriotic embolisms.


will the rain hurt the rhubarb? not if it's in the can.