Someone GETS IT!

[john9001]

Originally posted by oboe

I think any groups of people attempting this would be tried and convicted of treason.

the winner decides what is treason and what is patriotic.

[Dago]

"Guns don't kill people, dangerous minorities do".

[lazs2]

so hap.. you compare the 80 million or so adult gun owners and the founders of our nation to barney fife?   Interesting and very "progressive" of you.

guns are power.. it is that simple.   Those who don't have the guts to own guns always relegate that power to others.

It is funny how the liberals all feel that police and military are the only ones who should have guns but then rail against all the abuses of power that they percieve in the military and police...

When the people have guns you have a free country... when only the police have guns you have a police state.

The liberals have contempt for gun owners as rubes and hicks and rednecks and gun owners see liberals as effite sissies with no guts...  We will never see eye to eye us blue and red staters... It is probly time to split the country in two.

But...it is always the blue staters that protest that the most.. funny huh?  they hate us but they still want control... why not just be glad we are gone?

lazs

[Hap]

Originally posted by oboe
Hap, the Barney Fife quip went over my head.  Pity, because it sounds dang funny.    I just don't quite get what you're tyring to say?

The lynchpin (ohhh a pun) of the argument is the very mistaken definiton that a priviate citizen is a law enforcer and on par with Officer Krupke.

Then the 2nd Amendment "we like guns, we want guns, give us more guns" guys showed up.  Barney Fife was Sheriff Andy Taylor's sidekick in "Mayberry" played by Don Knotts with Andy Griffith as Andy.

He was known for his enthusiam and ineptitude.

hap

[VOR]

Hap, I think you're suffering from a stereotype image. I'd say your mind is completely to new ideas on this issue, but that would make me guilty of the same thing.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Hap
Barney Fife was Sheriff Andy Taylor's sidekick in "Mayberry" played by Don Knotts with Andy Griffith as Andy.

He was known for his enthusiam and ineptitude.

hap

That pretty much sums up your contribution to the thread here. Rather than discuss something you instead spread innuendo insult and condescension.

You don't like guns? Fine, no one is advocating you get one. No one is mandating you get one. The other side of the situation is that you don't want anyone else to have one since you seem to fear them or at least are fearful of people in possession of a firearm. I don't think it's your place at all to tell others how to live.

[Kieran]

Originally posted by oboe


Kieran - we may have the right to abolish our government - but honestly, in this day and age, do you really think its possible?    The Civil War proved that disaffected groups of people can't even peel off the union and strike out on their own.

I think any groups of people attempting this would be tried and convicted of treason.

Uh, no.

Hap's premise is that we the people are not in charge. His argument fails since it is based on the presumption we hand over complete control of our government to our government. Wrong. We hand day-to-day operation of government to the government, but they are responsible to us. Moreover, the Declaration outlines the extremes we can go to to achieve a government that satisfies the people.

His followup post further fails the litmus test because it is based on the idea that, since we are not charged to be policemen, we have no right to own guns. Wrong. The 2nd amendment doesn't specify that we have to be policemen to own guns, only that we have the right to have them if we want them.

[kamilyun]

Originally posted by Hap
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Not to be a nit-picking sweetheart, but the Declaration of Independence isn't the foundation of our government.  Got us out from underneath the Brits, but that's about it

For whatever it's worth, both you and wrag could find statements supporting your side in:

"The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature."

"The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures."

"The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate."

[dmf]

I fully believe that any one owning a gun, should be able to do so without worrying about weather or not it becomes illeagle, I'm, sorry but I really think that if you take away peoples guns and their right to own one, then the only ones left havening any guns will be the criminals.

I heard somewhere that England has no guns and a really high crime rate

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by john9001
the winner decides what is treason and what is patriotic.

We will find out.  **It** is not far off...

In other words, the citizenry consents to delegate or elect folk.

No.  The citizens consent to be governed.  That is not saying that they can choose to be in government.

By consenting to be governed, they set up the government they choose, and can choose to take it out at any time they please.

[lazs2]

hap... I believe that old barney of mayberry was a little more like the blue city,taxi riding, loafer wearers than you would like to admit...  He was scared of firearms.

lazs

[Hap]

Originally posted by Kieran
Hap's premise is that we the people are not in charge. His argument fails since it is based on the presumption we hand over complete control of our government to our government.

Redress is always available through the ballot box.  A powerful recourse as we all witnessed this last election.  And which I mentioned in my first post on this thread.

Also, a much more powerful example can be found from about 1970'ish through the early 1980's.  And really it's the best I know of.  During that period of time, many religious folks in America set about to find out what citizens could do within the law to achieve ends they desired.

They put forth an enormous amount of effort to gain seats in local government such as on school boards and the like.  From there, they continued in their very legal efforts to effect change.  The rest is history.

I can't recall what year the GOP's platform, or talk in their convention centered much about "family values," but that's where those ideas stemmed from.  The whole Murphy Brown thing.  Some of you may not have been born yet.

So the ballot box is one avenue of recourse.  And another is to do all the grunt work to get your guys on the ballot at the local level and keep doing it until the national level is affected.

More to the point, the original poster hailed the article he read.  The author of the article gives us an example of the police and citizens (not police) arriving to catch a bad guy and says their "authority" is equivalent.  My word, not his.  But it captures the sense he is trying to convey.

The author is of the article is wrong.

Why do you think police wear uniforms and have badges?

It's not a "fashion" thing.

All the Best,

hap

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Hap
I guess the Barney Fife crowd got back from the VFW.

hap

Im not a veteran.
but if I were I would be really offended at that remark

That is one of the more sad an pathetic comments I've seen on these boards in a long while.

Utterly digraceful

[Toad]

Why worry?

You only have to avoid being killed by your attacker for about 8 minutes (on average) and the cops will show up to rescue you.

Link

Of course, that was in 2003; surely things are faster now because... uh.. well, it should be faster?


That's not all that long; just stay alive through 16 TV commercials and the cops will likely get there.

[Toad]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Im not a veteran.
but if I were I would be really offended at that remark

Hap is the polite liberal that would never think of smearing someone's service. What's wrong with you?

Only conservatives make mean remarks; didn't you get the memo?