Author Topic: Patriot Act Abused? (Read 447 times)

wrag · « **on:** March 09, 2007, 03:23:41 PM »

Seems that is the case!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258010,00.html

Give an inch and a mile gets taken?????

There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. – Daniel Webster.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2007, 03:52:30 PM »

Piss on the FBI, they're just Criminals "keeping an eye on Criminals".

Nothing will happen to them as always.

Shamus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2007, 06:43:34 PM »

2003-2005 they used NSL's 143,000 times, I feel much safer with all those terrorists off the street.

Think of all the time and money that was saved by not bothering all those judges with that oversight baloney.

shamus

Gunslinger · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2007, 06:56:54 PM »

Quote

Additionally, the audit found, the FBI identified 26 possible violations in its use of the national security letters, including failing to get proper authorization, making improper requests under the law and unauthorized collection of telephone or Internet e-mail records.

So I am to understand that this is the abuse being reported?

I agree with keeping tabs on how our govt. keeps tabs but it seems the system is there and it works, hence the news story.

Additionally I think Mueller seems to be a stand up guy:

Quote

"I am the person responsible. I am the person accountable,"

"I should have introduced internal controls and additional levels of review," which he also said he failed to do.

Looks to me like the system is working.

BluKitty · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2007, 08:04:57 PM »

Tabs isn't enough

Govement officals need to be held up to the law.

They break the highest laws of our land, and answer for it less than than a common misdemeanor.

Politicians should be held accountable, FBI agents, or a common officer. They should be investigated and reviewed and charged by the DA when they break laws. This man admited to a high crime as I see it, and he walks? Our countries priorites are seriously backwards.

The govement has too much power and almost no accountablilty. They are the ones who risk everyones lives and livelyhoods, and the common citizen answers for more.... it doesn't make much sense, unless your a fan of neo-aristocracy...so to speak. I'm quite fed up with the lack of accountabilty...I see it in many people, in public or personal life. It's stupid.

It's a crime. Send him to court DA.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2007, 08:36:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BluKitty
Tabs isn't enough

Govement officals need to be held up to the law.

They break the highest laws of our land, and answer for it less than than a common misdemeanor.

Politicians should be held accountable, FBI agents, or a common officer. They should be investigated and reviewed and charged by the DA when they break laws. This man admited to a high crime as I see it, and he walks? Our countries priorites are seriously backwards.

The govement has too much power and almost no accountablilty. They are the ones who risk everyones lives and livelyhoods, and the common citizen answers for more.... it doesn't make much sense, unless your a fan of neo-aristocracy...so to speak. I'm quite fed up with the lack of accountabilty...I see it in many people, in public or personal life. It's stupid.

It's a crime. Send him to court DA.

What you don't see in that is the individual.

Quote

Of the violations, 22 were caused by FBI errors, while the other four were the result of mistakes made by the firms that received the letters.

26 out of 143K isn't really abuse now is it. The oversight is there. The director accepted responsibilty for it and promised more action. Personally I think he's the right guy for the job.

Do you want his resignation over this?

You say "no accountability" but if there was none than where'd this article come from......it came from and IG investigation. That's called oversight. It's also called accountability. Having worked for the federal govt for the last 11 years of my life I can tell you that being held accountable to the IG is having your feet held to the fire like none other.

If there was no accountability there'd be no report and thus no news article unless it was one of those articles on "leaks" from "annonymouse" sources.

rpm · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2007, 11:05:38 PM »

Guns that wasn't 26 out of 143,000. It was 26 out of 293, nearly 10%. I'd say the system is a cluster****.

Quote

The inspector general's audit, mandated by Congress over Bush administration objections, found that 22 of the errors were possible breaches of internal FBI and Justice Department regulations in a sampling of 293 "national security letters."

Gunslinger · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2007, 11:56:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
Guns that wasn't 26 out of 143,000. It was 26 out of 293, nearly 10%. I'd say the system is a cluster****.

Ok so I didn't read it right, I'm riding the capt. tonight. Either way it looks like there are checks in place....ala the system is working.

I don't whole heartedly agree with the PA's origins (IE it was on the books long before 911) but I do agree with it's usfullness. We are fighting a war here.

rpm · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2007, 11:58:48 PM »

We need to make sure it does not turn into McCarthyism. That's what is happening.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2007, 12:03:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
We need to make sure it does not turn into McCarthyism. That's what is happening.

again I don't see it

Edit:

If this is McCarthyilsm and every war we fight is going to be like this because its being probed within our own borders we are doomed anyways.

rpm · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2007, 12:06:38 AM »

I don't think we are doomed, but there is a problem and it needs fixing. Maybe it's time to tweak the PA a bit.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2007, 12:18:20 AM »

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Originally posted by rpm
I don't think we are doomed, but there is a problem and it needs fixing. Maybe it's time to tweak the PA a bit.

tweak, sure....but it seems the extremest on the other side (I'm talking politicans) want to knee jurk and abolish completly. Thats' the jist I get from the news coverage.

Hate me or not but between the fear of suicide bombers on highway 1604 and the "possibliity" of the FBI reading my emails wich do you think I'm gonna choose.

Yes Yes I know all the implications. I just seem to think there's alot of oversight and we need to let the "professionals" work.

rpm · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2007, 12:42:16 AM »

Of course they want total repeal. It's a great barganing position. By the time they are done hashing it out I don't see it losing it's teeth, but it will have stricter guidelines and more accountability.

Mini D · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2007, 08:46:11 AM »

I'd gladly vote to have the patriot act repealed and the department of "homeland security" disolved. It was the absolute worst solution to interdepartmental isolationism I've ever seen. The fact that it slid through so effortlessly is still amazing to me.

lazs2 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2007, 08:51:47 AM »

I would agree that whatever power you give government... governmment will abuse that power.

What I can't understand is the both the left and the right running headlong with all their might to be able to hand over even more power to "their" politicians..

The left wants to ban things and the right wants more "security"... it all boils down to more government in your life.... more potential for abuse but...

You watch.. the lefties will cheer as the democrats ban more things and make more laws and their freedoms evaporate.

I was never for the patriot act... I don't even care if a few blue cities get evaporated... I don't care if women murder their unborn and I don't care if you can by heroin at the drug store and I sure as hell don't care if the guy in the car next to me is wearing a seat belt or owns a gun.

I want both sides out of my life.

lazs