Author Topic: BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB  (Read 690 times)

Offline Kermit de frog

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« on: March 11, 2007, 11:56:36 PM »
I now have 3GB of memory.
Why do we need to buy 3GB of memory to preload AH skins when it can't use more than 2gb?

Anyone here that has 3GB of memory installed show AH see'ing more than 2048mb?

I'm frustrated.:mad:



Will the /3GB option in the boot.ini help me?
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Offline Kermit de frog

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2007, 04:52:38 AM »
Okay, I was also getting lockups in AH, but after listening to furball telling me to rebuild the cache.  I decided to exit the game.  Load up the skin viewer.  Shut that down and then restart the game.  The game then re cached everything and then no more lock ups.

So now, I'm curious to this new problem with WinXP not letting applications getting more than 2GB.  

Skuzzy, you got something to help or advice with people installing more than 2Gb of memory?
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Offline 2bighorn

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2007, 05:39:42 AM »
You need to consult your motherboard manual on how to enable memory hole remapping (either software, hardware or both).

Even that way, you won't get full 3GB because some of that memory will remain reserved for things like PCI addressing, etc.

Additionally, winXP can dedicate max 2GB memory per process, so only some apps can make usage of more than 2GB, but most don't...

Offline Skuzzy

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2007, 06:03:09 AM »
The game will only use the memory the operating system will allow it to use.  2GB is the maximum the operating system will allow.

Why do you want to preload all the skins?  Thje odds of anyone running into all the skins available in the game are astronomical.
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Offline Keeler101

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 01:13:02 PM »
I think turning off your Virtual Mem will increase perf. since you have extra ram to do it.

Offline Kermit de frog

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2007, 01:17:29 PM »
I remember reading that 3GB was needed to preload all the skins.
I was getting stutters so I was hoping that would help.  Well, stutters seem to be gone.  My computer seems to be running full speed and not slowing down.  I'm running dual channel for my PC3200 memory now.  I was trying to fix a problem for a few days that had no fix.  I just wish I knew about that before hand.  I'm happy though.

So skuzzy, is my virtual memory now on my physical memory istead on my hard drive?  My virtual memory on my physical memmory and harddrive?

I wonder why other people didn't say anything about this before.

Oh skuzzy, after I preload textures and skins, task manager says I'm using 1.24GB.  

Video mem =256MB, used=120MB
System mem=2048MB,Used system mem=400MB, tex=800MB

Am I not using all the 3GB?  If so, I'll just return 2x1GB sticks and buy 2x512MB sticks and save $60 and use that for my future watercooling OC project.  I could then run my memory at CL2.5 and not CL3.0.  I dont' know if I'll get better performance with the faster CL sticks.
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Offline Kermit de frog

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2007, 01:18:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Keeler101
I think turning off your Virtual Mem will increase perf. since you have extra ram to do it.


Will I have any side effects?  Can I just reduce my virtual memory size?  I know that there are multiple page files, so which one do I reduce?  Thanks.
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Offline Krusty

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2007, 01:32:07 PM »
You had to change a registry entry. Setting page file to "no page file" still makes Windows use a page file. It's hard-coded into the OS, basically.

I did it for a while when I had 1.5GB. I don't think I had enough at the time. It was smooth, and definitely loaded things faster. I did see, however, little micro warps rather often (every 20 seconds) but I think this is because I just didn't have enough RAM to pull it off. You should be safe, with 3GB.

Offline Keeler101

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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2007, 01:45:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Will I have any side effects?  Can I just reduce my virtual memory size?  I know that there are multiple page files, so which one do I reduce?  Thanks.


 I Have system mechanic 6 that lets you turn it off or and you can go into Cp>system>advanced> to turn it off

Quote
You had to change a registry entry. Setting page file to "no page file" still makes Windows use a page file. It's hard-coded into the OS, basically.


I didnt know that

Offline AKDogg

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2007, 05:39:46 PM »
Most system utilitize will actually slow down computer some as all the BS they have running in the background that u don't know about.  ie, Norton utility's, mcaffee, system mechanic and etc...  They all take resources to monitor your system.  The computer might run faster for normal load applications but when u run a high tasked application like AH is where u lose.  

The best way to opimize a system is have AH installed on another hard drive and not on same drive as the operating system.  Infact install all games on seperate HD from operating system.  This why your system can access both HD at same time without delay.  Also defrag your HD's regularly.  I use a program called Diskeeper 2007.  Best defrager I have come across and doesn't take much resources and does a great and fast job on the HD's.  Plus u can defrag mulitple drives at same time.  I have 3 and I do them all the same time.  The program actually keeps them defragged automatically.

Move your virtual memory either the operating system drive or a 3rd drive, not the game HD.  Again so it can swap memory info without delay.  Optimum is on 3rd drive.

Keep your system clean of Spy/adware stuff.  I use spysweeper.  Again 1 of the best programs I have used for removal of these items.

1 of the best tweaks I have found is using a program called XP Smoker.  Lots of tweaks in this program.  1 major one is for your CPU L2 cache.  Upon reading on the net I found out the XP by default only uses 256k l2 cache of the processor.  Well the tweak in this prgram can change that setting for U to use all 1024k of that cache if your CPU has that much.  Now if your CPU only has 512k, U can set it for that too.  U can actually set it for anything u want.  When I did this tweak, my system booted alot quicker and game runs perfect now.

If u use and of the 3rd party sound packs in the game, make sure they are not in stereo as I was told by 1 of the soundpack makers that the game don't use stereo sounds and can cause micro freezes in the game.  I had this problem when I found a few stereo sound files in the soundpack I was using.

Before entering the game U shouldn't have anymore then 21 processes running.  Lowest I believe is 14 and highest should be know more then 25.  I usually have 19-20 when I enter the game.  Services.msc is what u type in the start/run command line.  Then click status tab twice and it puts all the running processes at top of list.  Now this is where u need to be careful on what u shut down here.  I have a list of services that I can send to ya that should be on and not on.

There are alot more u can do, but this is what I think is the most crucial.

My system specs are:

AMD64 4000+ CPU (soon to have a 4800+ x2 dual core)
Asus A8N-SLI premuim MB
2 gig cas 2 latency OCZ ram
3 hd's all Western Digital.  2 74gig raptors and a 500gig SATA 3 HD
Soundblaster Audigy 2zs (soon to have the X-FI 64meg)
1 7900GT oc Nvidia video card (not SLI yet, hehehe)

I have in game settings at 1280x1024x32 with 512 megs textures
all Graphic sliders full left.
4xAA

My FPS is 50-75 (75 max because of refresh rate otherwise it goes 200) 50 being lowest when in the barell of a GV zoomed all the way in in the trees.

Can't ask for anything more out of this.
BTW I build and repair computers along with tweaking them.

Anymore ?'s just PM me or post it.
AKDogg
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Offline Kermit de frog

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2007, 04:15:25 AM »
Myth - "Enabling LargeSystemCache improves desktop/workstation performance."

Reality - "LargeSystemCache determines whether the system maintains a standard size or a large size file system cache, and influences how often the system writes changed pages to disk. Increasing the size of the file system cache generally improves file server performance, but it reduces the physical memory space available to applications and services. Similarly, writing system data less frequently minimizes use of the disk subsystem, but the changed pages occupy memory that might otherwise be used by applications. On workstations this increases paging and causes longer delays whenever you start a new app. Simply put enable this on a file server and disable it on everything else."

"System cache mode is designed for use with Windows server products that act as servers. System cache mode is also designed for limited use with Windows XP, when you use Windows XP as a file server. This mode is not designed for everyday desktop use. When you enable System cache mode on a computer that uses Unified Memory Architecture (UMA)-based video hardware or an Accelerated Graphics Port (AGP), you may experience a severe and random decrease in performance. For example, this decrease in performance can include very slow system performance, stop errors, an inability to start the computer, devices or applications that do not load, and system instability. The drivers for these components consume a large part of the remaining application memory when they are initialized during startup. Also, in this scenario, the system may have insufficient RAM when the following conditions occur:

- Other drivers and desktop user services request additional resources.
- Desktop users transfer large files.

By default LargeSystemCache is disabled in Microsoft Windows XP."

I'm going to do that page file on my D drive option.  I hope the above info helps resolve your idea of increasing the L2.
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Offline AKDogg

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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2007, 01:07:25 PM »
Here is what Microsoft writes for WinXP:

SecondLevelDataCache records the size of the processor cache, also known as the secondary or L2 cache. If the value of this entry is 0, the system attempts to retrieve the L2 cache size from the Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL) for the platform. If it fails, it uses a default L2 cache size of 256 KB. If the value of this entry is not 0, it uses this value as the L2 cache size. This entry is designed as a secondary source of cache size information for computers on which the HAL cannot detect the L2 cache.

L2 cache is not large system cache.  They are 2 different things.  System cache is the harddrive being used for extra memory.  L2 cache is your processor memory.  Obviously your processor memory is alot faster the a hard drive as there no moving parts in a processor.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management"SecondLevelDataCache"=dword:00000400

This is set for 1024 (1 meg cache).  512 would be 00000200 and 256 would be 100.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 01:12:59 PM by AKDogg »
AKDogg
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Offline Keeler101

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BIOS SEES 3GB, AH sees only 2GB
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2007, 04:33:41 PM »
Skuzzy what do we do ? :(


Im confuzed turning off my page file really dont do it ?
to do it i got to edit reg. how ?
I have to buy xp smoker to use my l2 cache max ? Or some other way, or??

The 4800+  is sweet got mine at 2.83 stock cooler 1.4v no prob :cool:

Stay away from SLI get a 8800 I got 7600gt and that will be my next jump if it will fit

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2007, 05:15:09 PM »
If you're not sure don't mess with your page file

Offline Kermit de frog

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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2007, 10:20:40 PM »
"L2 cache is not large system cache."-AKDOGG
Ah, you are right.  I copy pasted the wrong text.
Here is the full text:

[HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\MemoryManagement] "SecondLevelDataCache"

Myth - "Adjusting the SecondLevelDataCache Registry value to match your CPU's L2 Cache size improves performance."

Reality - "SecondLevelDataCache records the size of the processor cache, also known as the secondary or L2 cache. If the value of this entry is 0, the system attempts to retrieve the L2 cache size from the Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL) for the platform. If it fails, it uses a default L2 cache size of 256 KB. If the value of this entry is not 0, it uses this value as the L2 cache size. This entry is designed as a secondary source of cache size information for computers on which the HAL cannot detect the L2 cache. This is not related to the hardware; it is only useful for computers with direct-mapped L2 caches. Pentium II and later processors do not have direct- mapped L2 caches. SecondLevelDataCache can increase performance by approximately 2 percent in certain cases for older computers with ample memory (more than 64 MB) by scattering physical pages better in the address space so there are not so many L2 cache collisions. Setting SecondLevelDataCache to 256 KB rather than 2 MB (when the computer has a 2 MB L2 cache) would probably have about a 0.4% performance penalty."

Microsoft Article

AKdogg, I've never heard of this tweak.  I am only trying to fully understand this option.  BTW, microsoft says this does not apply to WinXP.
Time's fun when you're having flies.