Author Topic: Fighter Combat "Tactics & Maneuvering" (Read 1769 times)

Xargos · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2007, 04:39:13 PM »

Ghastly, thank you for posting about that book "In Pursuit", I just ordered it.

wetrat · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2007, 05:02:46 PM »

That book will just confuse most people... I find a lot of the stuff confusing, and I was doing it before I'd even heard of the damn book. That said, it's helpful if you can understand it.

Wizer · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2007, 05:10:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Man, we get so many new players who always ask how to do this or that.
Its a shame they cant have only one option for the first hour of online play.
"such as" When a person first joines, every server is like greyed out,only the training area would be selectable from the server browser.

For everyone who "GOTTA PLAY NOWESZ!" just code it to end, as soon as the player log out of training arena.
that way,someone new could enter the training arena,and get the help they need "AND,they know where to go if something else arises"
Could also just make it a little box option in ither the server hose,or ingame "like some options can only be changed, once online/offline .ect"

Anyhow.

When I started Air Warriors many years ago (I believe it was 1997) they had a newbie arena where all new flyers were assigned. The new pilots had to learn their aircraft and combat tactics to accumulate 10,000 points. Once they accumulated 10,000 points, they could then enter the main arenas. That system seemed to work out well, but Air Warriors eventually stop using the newbie arena. Maybe Hitech should consider such an arena.
Just a thought. wizer

quintv · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2007, 05:23:42 PM »

I have the book.

I think I read perhaps three pages before I actually died of boredom.

Thank God for reincarnation.

Doberman · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2007, 09:58:18 PM »

Hear, hear, Ghastly. Well said.

I love Shaw's book. Hell, I love the man himself. Who'd believe that such a little body can hold so much liquor? But it is first and foremost a book for modern fighter pilots. Not that many of the concepts put forth within aren't germane to WWII fighter combat, but they've gotta be distilled quite a bit to get there.

Most true beginners simply don't have the rudimentary knowledge necessary to get much from Shaw. It'd be like putting a calculus textbook in front of somebody who's just getting a grasp on basic math.

I came to the book with a long history of air combat sims including Gilman Louie's original F-16 Fighting Falcon, then Falcon AT, Air Warrior on Genie, Red Baron on Sierra, Warbirds, etc. So I was at least passing familiar with the vocabulary and the concepts within. And I could apply much of it to Falcon 4.0 which was just hot off the presses at the time. I was able to get through it from front to back, but lemme tell ya, it was rough going.

I certainly wouldn't wish the experience on someone who wasn't as deeply immersed in sims as I was at the time. Or a professional jet fighter pilot, the actual target audience of the book.

Alot of guys like to namedrop "Fighter Combat" as if simply owning the book makes them a better pilot.

It will, I guess, if you're capable of interpreting it, digesting the knowledge, and applying it to the planes we fly in Aces High. Is the typical AH pilot?

As much as I don't want to take a dime outta Mouse's pocket (though I dunno if he still gets paid per copy sold), a truly novice AH fighter pilot would be better served by other options. I've got a spiralbound self-published treatise by DocDoom (He still around anywhere anymore?) called "Air to Air Gunfighter" (with a forward by GunJam, no less), that probably cost me $10 from him at a con and which would be FAR more useful to 90% of AH pilots than "Fighter Combat" would be. The stuff on http://www.netaces.org or some of the articles at SimHQ http://www.simhq.com/_air/acc_library.html are a much better place for the newbie to start. "In Pursuit" which you linked to, is another great option. "Noob" never got finished & released, did it?

If nothing else, tear out the BFM section and don't let them read anything but that over & over again for a while. When they've got it memorized, maybe then give 'em the rest of the book.

And a buncha no-Doze.

quintv · « **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2007, 10:04:00 PM »

http://web.comhem.se/~u85627360/

Johan Kylander's "In Pursuit" trumps Fighter Combat or any thing else written in terms of being accessible and applicable to prop fighter sims.

Messiah · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2007, 12:54:17 AM »

bmbm taught me how to pwn in ww2ol and air sims, let him teach you too!

-madness

quintv · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2007, 08:04:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Messiah
bmbm taught me how to pwn in ww2ol and air sims, let him teach you too!

-madness

The man is a beast.

Took me out as his tail gunner in a Blen. Mk I sortie and in three consecutive one on one fights he totally dismantled three 109s, I watched from my little turret in awe.

Cooley · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2007, 02:01:06 PM »

I own the Book, Ive just read the whole thing once,
but ive gone back and studied chapter 4 many many times

It really helps, and is a great way to learn the lag displacement roll
which IMO may be one of the best ACM's to use in our game

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #24 on:** March 20, 2007, 03:53:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Xargos
Ghastly, thank you for posting about that book "In Pursuit", I just ordered it.

So did I, just snagged the last copy that was up on Amazon.

ack-ack

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2007, 04:04:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Doberman
Hear, hear, Ghastly. Well said.

I love Shaw's book. Hell, I love the man himself. Who'd believe that such a little body can hold so much liquor? But it is first and foremost a book for modern fighter pilots. Not that many of the concepts put forth within aren't germane to WWII fighter combat, but they've gotta be distilled quite a bit to get there.

Most true beginners simply don't have the rudimentary knowledge necessary to get much from Shaw. It'd be like putting a calculus textbook in front of somebody who's just getting a grasp on basic math.

I came to the book with a long history of air combat sims including Gilman Louie's original F-16 Fighting Falcon, then Falcon AT, Air Warrior on Genie, Red Baron on Sierra, Warbirds, etc. So I was at least passing familiar with the vocabulary and the concepts within. And I could apply much of it to Falcon 4.0 which was just hot off the presses at the time. I was able to get through it from front to back, but lemme tell ya, it was rough going. I certainly wouldn't wish the experience on someone who wasn't as deeply immersed in sims as I was at the time. Or a professional jet fighter pilot, the actual target audience of the book.

Alot of guys like to namedrop "Fighter Combat" as if simply owning the book makes them a better pilot. It will, I guess, if you're capable of interpreting it, digesting the knowledge, and applying it to the planes we fly in Aces High. Is the typical AH pilot?

As much as I don't want to take a dime outta Mouse's pocket (though I dunno if he still gets paid per copy sold), a truly novice AH fighter pilot would be better served by other options. I've got a spiralbound self-published treatise by DocDoom (He still around anywhere anymore?) called "Air to Air Gunfighter" (with a forward by GunJam, no less), that probably cost me $10 from him at a con and which would be FAR more useful to 90% of AH pilots than "Fighter Combat" would be. The stuff on http://www.netaces.org or some of the articles at SimHQ http://www.simhq.com/_air/acc_library.html are a much better place for the newbie to start. "In Pursuit" which you linked to, is another great option. "Noob" never got finished & released, did it?

If nothing else, tear out the BFM section and don't let them read anything but that over & over again for a while. When they've got it memorized, maybe then give 'em the rest of the book. And a buncha no-Doze.

Another good book is "Every Man a Tiger : Mock-Combat Flying Techniques for Light Aircraft " by Frank J. Obrien.

It's geared towards the private acrobatic pilot but the terminology is more layman than Shaw's.

ack-ack

Ghastly · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2007, 01:05:56 PM »

Doberman, DocDoom is one of the principals (I'd say one of the owners, except that I'm not certain of the corporate structure) of WWIIOL.

And yes, Air to Air Gunfighter is pretty good - condensed though, and more superficial than a lot of other resources if you are looking for "how to" - but a very enjoyable read.

Sadly, I don't know what the status of printing may be. Barry (Carrot) has passed on, and I don't know what happened to his publishing company when he passed.

And also sadly, I don't know what happened to my copy of "The Butcherbird's guide to a free lunch" that I bought at the same time. I asked my fiance if she'd seen it when she re-arranged my bookshelf, and simply got a look that said "Whatever you just asked, I don't even want to know..."

Xargos · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:02:38 PM »

I can't find anything on either "Butcherbirds Guide to a Free Lunch" nor "Air to Air Gunfighter". I have a friend who's a publisher and he could find out more if he knew who the authors and publishers where.

Gatr · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:10:07 PM »

As I recall... They were almost done to order on a copier and bound..
per order... I worked in printing all my life so I notice that kind of stuff ....
And YEAH I lost my copies also

Puck · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:11:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Xargos
I can't find anything on either "Butcherbirds Guide to a Free Lunch" nor "Air to Air Gunfighter". I have a friend who's a publisher and he could find out more if he knew who the authors and publishers where.

DocDoom from Warbirds. Still have my copies (autographed, in fact).

I was in his squad (Bloody Sharks) and remember when he moved from the south coast of Australia to Texas to join the WWIIOL group after the Grapevine WB office was closed. Lost touch with him after that.