New American Heavy Tank: M26 'Pershing'

[E25280]

Originally posted by Soulyss
Diameter alone did not make the tank gun.  If memory serves the Panther used a 76mm gun which actually had superior penetration against armor than the famed 88mm on the Tiger.

Panther was 7.5cm KwK 42 L/70(just to pick nits).

[E25280]

Originally posted by Raptor
hardly seems like an improvement over the 76mm version of the Sherman:confused:

I tried to quickly find a comparison of muzzle velocity between the 17lbr and the US 76mm, and did not get one right away.  But if memory serves, the 17lbr's was higher overall, i.e. better power even with standard AP.  I also believe the APDS round ended up being superior to the US HVAP rounds at range (roughly equal in close).  

Since this is from memory, I'm sure someone will slap me if I am wrong.

[E25280]

OK -- I have no patience for this junk, so Wiki will have to do . . .

Heck, I can't seem to get away from it.  Half the links cite Wiki as the source.  

Anyhoo --

US 76mm gun firing HVAP ammunition is listed as penetrating 158mm at 500 meters and 134mm armor at 1000 meters (standard AP at the same ranges is listed at 94mm and 85mm, respectively).

Brit 17lbr firing APDS round is listed as penetrating 213mm armor at 1000 meters (almost 60% more than HVAP).

I would say the 17lbr qualifies as a "significant" improvement over the US 76mm gun.

[Willfly]

Frankly, this thread is for discussion of the M26 'Pershing' heavy tank but I am happy to sort some of this stuff out.

First, I hate using wikipedia because that stuff can be edited by anyone with false information, last year when I searched T-34 out of boredom the beginning line was started with, "The T-34 Panzer tank..."
...obviously people screw around on it.

17 Pounder Details:
Summary: The Firefly had in itself different versions including the IIC and VC  but they all have 17 Pounders. The 17 Pounder was nothing more than a 3 Inch, or 76mm gun. Plenty of Shermans were made and designed in 6 different ways with variant in each design. The Firefly was a BRITISH conversion which incorporated a 17pounder (3") MKIV, L/60 tank gun mounted on an M4A4 'Sherman' Chassis sent via the Lend Lease act.

Penetration
At 30 Degrees, the 76mm ammunition from the 17 Pounder could penetrate 6 Inches from 100 Yards away. Muzzle Velocity: roughly 2890 feet per second

The commonly used 75mm M3 used on most of the American Shermans penetrated...(Erm, you will have to look at the site Yourself because this business is a bit complicated: http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/guns.asp

The Americans used a 76mm as well on some of their tanks but was not as good in penetration compared to the British version. See this link for penetration tables for britain:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/unitedkingdom/penetration-tables.asp
The 17 Pounder is overall better than the American 76mm though both guns are the same diameter. compared to the American 75mm M3 even an american 76mm is much better despite being ONLY ONE millimeter wider

[stephen]

Said it about the Sherman and ill say it again, the M-26 Pershing is in this game sooner or later, its just too well known a comodity and O-so-very represenitive of the thinking that eventualy corrected the folly that was the mass production of the M-4 Sherman with a short 75mm.      
                                   (M-26 to be perked of course)

Sooner than later I hope,............... but I digress, we are getting a very nice present in the firefly, and I definatly dont wonna kaka on that, so thanks HT and the CREW!!:aok

[Willfly]

Originally posted by stephen
Said it about the Sherman and ill say it again, the M-26 Pershing is in this game sooner or later, its just too well known a comodity and O-so-very represenitive of the thinking that eventualy corrected the folly that was the mass production of the M-4 Sherman with a short 75mm.      
                                   (M-26 to be perked of course)

Check your information, there were all KINDS of production models for the M4 'Sherman' some obviously produced more than others. It is a good idea to check this link:http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/production.asp
(The firefly is NOT listed in this United States production list because the 17-Pounder was a British weapon fitted onto the chassis of a M4A4 Sherman

Variants and their Numbers(Including Original Model): (Obviously, a small number of these variants were not used, British Conversions/variants not included)
M4: 58 Variants
M4A1: 4 Variants
M4A2: 3 Variants
M4A3: 8 Variants
M4A4: 3 Variants
M4A6: 1 Variant
Total Variants: 77 Variants

British Shermans sent through Lend Lease and Numbers:
Roughly 48 Different Models of Sherman  

Choosing the right M4 tank to use is tough if you ask me, I choosed the M26 because of its reasonable production amount. HTC has to do the same thing obviously because of the vast variety of Shermans and considering the fact that the infamous Sherman with the 75 was so bad.

[stephen]

I dont understand how im wrong, by and large american forces where issued Sherman variants with short barreld 75mm cannon..
 
17pounder great very happy, im not talking about british forces, since the above was in refrence to AMERICAN tanks, as i recal M26's were ,not issued to the brits, and only limited numbers of upgunned M4's where ever produced/retrofitted...for AMERICAN forces.


my info be danged, goin off my own recollection

[Willfly]

Originally posted by stephen
I dont understand how im wrong, by and large american forces where issued Sherman variants with short barreld 75mm cannon..
 
17pounder great very happy, im not talking about british forces, since the above was in refrence to AMERICAN tanks, as i recal M26's were ,not issued to the brits, and only limited numbers of upgunned M4's where ever produced/retrofitted...for AMERICAN forces.


my info be danged, goin off my own recollection

I could agree with most of it, pardon me for some misunderstanding on my part.

According to my research the production values for up-gunned M4 Shermans are actually higher than you might expect

Production values for "Up-gunned" M4 Variants (Of course the 75mm is the 'regular' model)
M4 Sherman (75mm): 6748
M4 Sherman (105mm): 1641
M4A1 Sherman (75mm): 6281
M4A1 Sherman (76mm): 3426
M4A2 Sherman (75mm): 7219
M4A2 Sherman (76mm): 2915
M4A3 Sherman (75mm): 4761
M4A3 Sherman (105mm):3039
M4A3 Sherman (76mm): 4542
M4A4 Sherman (75mm): 7499
M4A6 Sherman (75mm): 75

Total 75mm Shermans: 32,583
Total 76mm Shermans: 10,883
Total 105mm Shermans: 4,680

Total Overall: 48,146

P.S.: Nice Signature stephen: "Spell checker is for morons"