Say NO to the G.55

[Krusty]

3 squadrons, making up 200 pilots, flew the G.55. Unless I mis-read all the many many pages of valid info we've posted in the offical G.55 lobbying thread?

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
try using something other than Wikipedia.

ack-ack

Highly uncalled for, as your info seems to be the questionable stuff. FYI, Wiki didn't have nearly half the stuff it does now. When HTC posted a link to wiki, Gian updated the Wiki entry, citing his references.

[Bodhi]

Krusty, the saddest thing here is that you are so full of caca del toro that you could not move unless a dung beetle picked you up and rolled you into a ball....

Come on and get a basic understanding.  The G.55 was a too late, not enough produced, and DEFINITLEY not an impact on the war.

I am tired of listening to your inane rantings.  You know crap all, your assumptions are flawed and you generally have no clue.  That you have survived this long is proof that God has a heart for idiots.

[Krusty]

Interesting... Because you don't like something, you tear it down and anybody that does like it... Very interesting... Says a lot about you, really.

I never said it was a tide-turning aircraft. I simply said it wasn't "nothing" as you have been spouting. Did it appear in astounding numbers? No. Was it the primary late-war ride for the ANR? Yes. Was it "too late"? No. Not unless you call 1943 "too late" -- in which case so is the C.205 and the 109G-6 and the 190a5 and the blah blah blah.


And yet, here we are with you tearing me down. I'm sorry, I'm not biting. Take your insults and go home.

[Bodhi]

you started with insults...

I finish.

Spin it how you like, you are still a factless imbecile.

[Krusty]

I did not start anything.

I've supplied you with more resources than you've supplied. You've just sat there shouting "NO!" with your hands over your ears.

Hell, you're entitled to vote however the hell you want.

I just didn't want you spreading misconceptions about the G.55 around, making others think it was a Ta152 when in fact it was a 109G6 (rare v. common).

[Krusty]

Oh, and FYI: I've been pretty straightforward. I've not been hyping the plane up into some super monster of a plane (like the Yak-3), nor have I been downplaying it to the point of nonexistence (like you on this and the Brewster). I have supplied decent info on the aircraft. When you want to act civil feel free, but don't confuse me with Ball or humble and all the joke making and exaggeration.

If you read what I typed I only pointed out that which I found sources for. I embellished nothing and exaggerated not. If you have a problem with the info I've found, find more info. Most of it supports what I've typed.

[Gianlupo]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Only one unit flew the G.55.  The other fighter units flew either C.200s, C.202s, or C.205 or flew Bf109Gs.  The Germans started to replace the Italian planes with Bf109s and then later decided to disband the ANR which caused a small rebellion amongst the ANR Italians.  The Italian Co-Belligerence (sp?) Air Force fought througout the entire war, the ANR did not.  It was completely grounded in early 1945 due to lack of fuel and was disbanded.

try using something other than Wikipedia.


ack-ack

As Krusty stated, Ack Ack, I wrote the Wiki page about the G.55... and all the info I put there are from books. If you look carefully, in the Operational history part, you'll notice that both the fighter squadrons flew the G.55, the 2nd Gruppo from the beginning of ANR, the 1st only in Summer 1944. And substitution with the 109 started from the late 1944.

Bodhi, as I tried to explain before, I think that history (should) will have a lesser weight in the vote... most of the people will choose the plane with MAs in mind and this means performance will have the bigger impact, not production numbers. That's why the G.55 can be a good choice.

I'm sorry that everything ended in a mess, as usual. Not pointing finger at anyone, but I always hope we can discuss these topics without slaughtering each other... it should go this way....

[Gianlupo]

Ouch.... I don't know what happened, but I'm afraid I made a little mess with Wiki... there are 2 pages about the G.55 now... the one Pyro linked and the one I wrote... add a dot between G and 55 in the Pyro's address, you'll see the new entry. I'll ask him if he can change the home page link. Sorry

EDIT: it looks like the editors want to keep the old entry, too... they added a summary to the page I wrote and put in a different picture.... oh well...

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Krusty
I did not start anything.

What are you taking?  Honestly, I want to see how the hell this turned into you being the victim?  You came into this thread and called me ignorant.  If that is not starting something, I really do not know wtf is.

Originally posted by Krusty
I've supplied you with more resources than you've supplied. You've just sat there shouting "NO!" with your hands over your ears.

I provided production figures put in place by your buddy Gianlupo.  You want to argue that, talk to him.  As for you saying that I am not listenening, I have seen your reasoning.  You want the G.55 because it will have a chance for the Italians to fight and be competitive even though it was hardly a blip in the war.  I have maintained it is such a limited production aircraft, that there are other more important aircraft that should go in game first.

Originally posted by Krusty
Hell, you're entitled to vote however the hell you want.

The why the hell are you here telling me something different then... seriously, what are you on?

Originally posted by Krusty
I just didn't want you spreading misconceptions about the G.55 around, making others think it was a Ta152 when in fact it was a 109G6 (rare v. common).

Misconception...?  Again, what are you on?
The Ta152 saw about 50 examples produced and delivered... roughly.  Thats 33% of the total number of G.55's that were delivered.  The 109G6 saw roughly 11000 aircraft produced.  It was the most common built 109.  The G.55 total production (even counting aircraft not delivered and on assembly line) is 2.7% of the 109G6 production.   The Ta152 total represents .4 % of the 109G6 production.
DING DING.... that logic of yours is FLAWED as usual.  They were BOTH rare when compared to the 109G6.  

You are not straight forward.  You skew everything to your point of view.  If you do not have a fact you make it up.  Thats the number one problem with you and why people just can not stand to see you in a thread.  Even when you are wrong you maintain your innocence and try to skew that into an attack on you.

Frankly I am very tired of you and your factless statements and spin.

Ohh, and the G.55 does not belong in the game.  It was a limited number side show.

[Shamus]

Bring the G.55 to Aces High!!!!!

shamus

[humble]

This isn't a reenactment of WW2....it's a game. We have many planes that saw limited action (F4U-4,Ta-152) just to name a couple. No question if you look at it from a purely historical perspective then the P-39 is the hands down winner....it simply flew more places for longer then anything else.

However, if you factor in other variables then the G.55 tremendous sense. One of the facinations I've always had is how different perception and reality are. We all have tremendous preconceptions and reality is often a suprise. When WW2 aviation comes to mind most of the worlds population thinks Mustang, Bf-109, Spitfire, Zero & Yak-9. Almost no one thinks P-38, Ta-152, Typhoon, Ki-84 & La-5. Yet anyone in AH {with any experience} could discourse on the relative merits and shortcomings on all of them.

The G.55 was actually the right bird in the right place at the right time. Designed to counter the biggest threat in the best possible way while providing maximum operational flexibility. It would have entered service months before the P51B arrived in England and might have potentially changed the course of the war. It was an exceptional piece of aviation engineering and deserves a "place in the game" for that reason alone.

[Bodhi]

I am 100% not against adding Italian aircraft.  If you want to add an Italian aircraft though, then add the CR.42 and SM.79.  

Both served in significant numbers.  Hell a CR.42 is in a museum over in England after it was shot down during the Battle of Britain.

That is the way it should be.  Insignificant, hypothetical uber planes should have lower priority than the real in your face aircraft that were there and fought in numbers.

[Ball]

ROFLOL

Originally posted by Krusty
Only reason people want the G55 is the same reason people wanted the P38G. They think it will out fly and out shoot any other plane in the game. We have enough uber planes by my counting.

I hope we never get it. But that's just me.

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145428

Krusty cannot decide how many were produced either: -

Originally posted by Krusty
I wouldn't quote that number. So far the only reference I've seen quote that is Wikipedia. I've seen other webpages quote it, but saying they got it from wiki. I know there must be some reason somebody put that on wiki in the first place, but wiki's got numbers horribly wrong in the past (all user-submitted data, rememer?)

A non-wiki site has the following to say:

Deliveries of the G55 to the 53rd Stormo and the 353rd Squadriglia of the 20th Gruppo just started when Italy surrendered to the Allies on September 8, 1943. Because of Italy's surrender, the G55 did not see combat with the Regia Aeronautica. However, factories which were building the G55's were still under the control of the Republica Sociale Italiana (Salo Republic) in northern Italy, and several thousand were ordered. The G55 became the RSI's standard aircraft for their air force. Shortages began to develope as the DB 605 A-1 engines became scarce and only 105 FIAT G55's were produced by the time the Allies overran all of Italy.

Only about 100 made, but we know from other sources (even wiki) that many sat undelivered at the factories. There were probably less than 50 in service, or less.

Hey, I'd LOVE this plane, just trying to clarify the history a bit [/B]

You lose this book krusty?

Originally posted by Krusty

EDIT: Oh and just looked, turns out I own a book with some info on the G.55. According to Gunston (not the best, but still decent) only 105 were made, as well.

Scarce plane? from what you have been saying it was the backbone of the IAF!

Originally posted by Krusty
Actually I'm betting the exact opposite. I'm betting that's the total and a large portion of that was captured at the factories before they could be delivered.

Keep in mind it was a scarce airplane.

When they talk about Me262s they say 1400 produced (or whatever) but only 800 ever got to units. When they talk about the Ta152 they say 80 produced, but only 12 saw action. When they talk about He162s, they say 300 produced but only 2 units were equipped with them (and maybe a Hitler Youth group, there's some reference to this, but precious documentation as they were burning paperwork at the time).

So when they say 105 produced I'm taking that as "were counted as finished at the factory" and whether they ever got shipped from the factory is another matter.

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198768

[Ball]

Originally posted by Bodhi
I am 100% not against adding Italian aircraft.  If you want to add an Italian aircraft though, then add the CR.42 and SM.79.

You might like this link about the CR.42 in service...

http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/falco_ra.htm

http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/falco.htm

The CR.42 Falco (Falcon) was the last of the great biplane fighters entering flight testing in late May 1938. It was a successor of CR.32 that had claimed great success in the Spanish skies during the civil war.
The CR.42 was manufactured in larger numbers than any other Italian fighter, remaining in production as late as 1943. Extremely light on the controls, universally viewed as a delight to fly, superbly agile and innately robust, the CR.42 synthesised a decade-and-a-half of continuos fighter development; it was a thoroughbred with a distinguished pedigree carrying fighter biplane evolution to its apex. But its intrinsic qualities were those demanded of an earlier era in aerial warfare than that in which it was to find itself. The CR.42 was nevertheless to see combat throughout WWII and, curiously, was to fight against the Luftwaffe, alongside the Luftwaffe and with the Luftwaffe itself, singing the swan song of the fighter biplane while doing so.
The CR.42 was exported to Belgium, Sweden and Hungary, seeing combat in both Belgium and Hungary. Regia Aeronautica used them on all fronts (e.g. North Africa, Mediterranean, Battle of Britain and East Africa). The Luftwaffe used more than 100, as night attack aircraft in relatively quiet theatres and as fighter-trainers.
 

Thread on the SM.79 too

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65464