Author Topic: Voting, Decisions....Decisions.....  (Read 522 times)

Offline tedrbr

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Voting, Decisions....Decisions.....
« on: March 28, 2007, 06:12:20 PM »
Wow..... I take a break for a couple weeks and see plans for Firefly and new plane voting.

    *  A-26   -  Argument: Only real PERKABLE Buff Ride outside of the B-29 and He-177 with guided munitions, that could be added to the game.  Bomber Drivers NEED another perk ride for all those buff perks we've nothing to spend on other than the Arado.  Guessing the FireFly will be the GV'rs second perk option.  A much better plane than the B-25 in performance and several weapons options available for attack or level bombing roles.  See Invader Thread
Up to 14 forward firing .50's (uber-HO).  Up to 14 - 5 inch rockets (Fireflies beware!).   Up to 6,000 lbs of ordnance.  Up to 355mph at 15,000 feet.  A couple (30) early models delivered with 75mm cannons, but no record they were ever used in combat.
Ground attack, uber-strafer, a better penetration bomber than Ki-67 and B-26, a much needed buff perk point economy sink.  


    * B-25   - Nope.   Enough American planes in the plane-set, and America already getting the Firefly.  Only reason I picked Invader was because it's a PERKABLE ride for Buff drivers.  The B-25 Mitchell is not really perk-worthy. It sits between the B-26 and B-24 in load-out and flight characteristics.  If just adding bombers, look to other, more limited, plane-sets first.  

    * Brewster Buffalo.  - Considering numbers in early war arenas?  Betting this would see little flight time by most players.  Possible hangar queen.  Finland not represented anyways, and they used it the most.  

    * G.55 - Yes, a limited produced plane, but a better "109" than 109's, from most accounts.  Gives the Italians a 3rd plane for them.  Gives luffenwobble pilots a new toy.  My second choice.

    * He 111 - Yes.  As addition to bomber set, addition to Early War and SEA events.  Not my favorite choice, considering the low numbers in EW arenas.  Outside of BoB senerios, this plane did better during the Spanish Civil War than WWII.  

    * A Japanese fighter - either Ki 44, J2M, Ki 45, or Ki 43 -  With the swarms of Niki's now, not so sure.  In Japanese plane set (as well as CV-based planes), guess I'd rather see the Judy first, before a fighter.  Have to vote against, compared to others on the list. Would like to see Japanese plane set grow, but not if it is the only plane we will see in the near future.

    * Me 410 - A night bomber/fighter and bomber destroyer?  Nope.  If we had night, and radar equipped planes, I'd vote for it (and the P-61 Black Widow), but as the arenas are set up now, no way.  Definitely a hangar queen.

    * P-39 - Tentative Yes.  I know what I said about American planes, but this plane saw FAR more action with Russian pilots.  2nd highest Allied Ace of WWII was a Russian, Aleksandr Ivanovich Pokryshkin, who flew P-39s (and probably P-63s).  Give it a Russian skin, and place in Russian plane set, I'd go with the Airacobra.  Probably the lower altitude equivalent to a high altitude Pony.  Third Choice.

    * A Russian bomber - either Pe-2 or Tu-2  I'd go with a Russian bomber added, but I doubt they will get the votes to make it happen.  I'd really like to see expansion in much of the plane set; up close to the levels that are represented by the American plane set.  And, bomber pilots could really use a second perk ride.

    * Yak 3  - Possibly.  With fuel settings in arenas, this bird would have a VERY short range.  Which might see it hangared, or only of field defense.  I like Yaks.  Fun little planes.  Not sure if the flight characteristics are different enough from others to warrant it's addition though.  It was an air superiority fighter compared the the interceptor roles most others had.  Better dogfighters, but more limited range.  Wish I knew better hard numbers on how it would compare to the others.  Would be my fourth choice.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 06:15:16 PM by tedrbr »

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2007, 12:21:56 AM »
Tedrbr, as I was parusing the many-fold threads that have spawned in the last coupla' days, I've seen alot of insightful posts, as to aircraft performance, Numbers built, operational use, etc. But I realized that their is on great irony in all of this...We are holding the voting in the MA. Will the vast majority of AH's even know, or even care about what a G.55 can do???
Will they simply ask what country it's from, and vote based on that???

Heck, the exit poll thread doesn't really even come close to an accurate tally, because maybe 10% at most actually come to this board.

I'm afraid that whatever choice that HTC and crew make, is gonna split the people on these boards more. Go to the NO on the G.55 thread started by Bhodhi, and you'll see what I mean.

Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2007, 01:52:17 AM »
Ted you can't argue for the A26 on one hand and then say no to the B25 because it's just another American bird.

A26 is nothing but American.  At least the 25 flew with all kinds of different countries.
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Offline 4deck

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WTG Ted
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 10:42:38 AM »
Nice post Ted. I agree with about 75% other then Id go with the yak as my second choice. My  first as you goes with the A26. I have missions already in the works that would be just PERFECTO. I also would like to see it perked. And formations with the standard X3 multiplier. I think it may come out as a solo though. Well it got my vote as soon as I saw the selection. I also am looking at this not from what planes were built, or how many, what country. Im looking at this purely on the stand point of the MA. Which is where I play. So I would like to use it for the game, and it will get used. Alot. I cant wait to fly and get called a Dweeb.

:aok:lol :p
Forgot who said this while trying to take a base, but the quote goes like this. "I cant help you with ack, Im not in attack mode" This is with only 2 ack up in the town while troops were there, waiting. The rest of the town was down.

Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2007, 11:01:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Ted you can't argue for the A26 on one hand and then say no to the B25 because it's just another American bird.

A26 is nothing but American.  At least the 25 flew with all kinds of different countries.


Yes I can.  

The A-26 is only American plane I argue FOR since it is the only one we could see added that would justify spending Bomber Perk Points on.  Right now, all buff drivers have is the Arado.  

Not going to ever see the B-29 (don't think in-game runways long enough to get one off the ground if modeled correctly if they did), and possibly the He-177 would be perk worthy, with it's guided munitions, which we also won't see.  

B-25 sits between the B-26 and B-24 already in-game as for performance, ord load, speed, climb rate, and abilities.  Nothing really special about it to pull ahead in a popular vote with the online community full of fighter pilots.  75mm spud gun appeals to some, but that is not that great a deal to swing the vote.

Invader is a buff perk ride that could be added.  Otherwise, I will argue for other nation plane sets be filled out first.  American set getting the Sherman Firefly.  German, Japanese, Russian, and Italian plane-sets are pretty thin right now.  

Only thing the B-25 has going for it over the A-26 is name recognition among the proles, 'cause they saw a movie once.  If EW and MW saw much bigger numbers, or AvA saw numbers, I might consider the B-25...... but majority of players are in the LW arenas.  

The P-39 is a strong contender, I have to admit, because it is an American plane, and most AHII players are from the States, but even here, I'd argue long and hard for a Russian version of the Airacobra, Russian skin, and placed in Russian plane set if it wins.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 11:04:41 AM by tedrbr »

Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2007, 11:12:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
But I realized that their is on great irony in all of this...We are holding the voting in the MA. Will the vast majority of AH's even know, or even care about what a G.55 can do???
Will they simply ask what country it's from, and vote based on that???

Heck, the exit poll thread doesn't really even come close to an accurate tally, because maybe 10% at most actually come to this board.

I'm afraid that whatever choice that HTC and crew make, is gonna split the people on these boards more. Go to the NO on the G.55 thread started by Bhodhi, and you'll see what I mean.


A solid point.  Name recognition may be what sees us getting the He-111, the B-25, or the P-39 in the end, because of where the plane comes from or because someone watch a movie once.  And in that case, betting on P-39, since it's the fighter.  

I think holding a popular vote in the game interface was a mistake.  Holding a vote in the boards or website to get down to 3 choices, with final selection coming from HTC would have made more practical sense to me.  At least on the website, they link to descriptions of each plane.

Getting two American made entries (Sherman Firefly and American plane) going to be a turn off for non-American players. (I know I know, I argue A-26, but I'm looking for a reason to use buff perks.  Put and end to bomb-and-bail!  --- I also would have chosen Flak 36 over the Firefly)

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 11:21:49 AM »
Quote
I think holding a popular vote in the game interface was a mistake. Holding a vote in the boards or website to get down to 3 choices, with final selection coming from HTC would have made more practical sense to me. At least on the website, they link to descriptions of each plane.


The problem with that is, it leaves the choice of plane up to the perhaps 10% of the community, that actually use the BBS. Add to that, the possibility of multiple shades accounts in here, and the voting gets skewed completely out of wack. No, HTC did the right thing by holding the vote in the MA, it was the only way to be truly fair.

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2007, 02:53:49 PM »
Wasn't the A26 an Attack plane?

If so no formations.......... it would be a perked attacker.
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2007, 02:57:33 PM »
Mossie 16 is a likely perk bomber too.
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Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2007, 06:21:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
Wasn't the A26 an Attack plane?

If so no formations.......... it would be a perked attacker.



Much more than an attack plane.
High performance medium bomber/attack plane (also referred to as (Ground) Attack Fighter, Close Support Attack Fighter, Light Bomber, Medium Bomber).

Two versions. Multi-role plane. Third version (A-26A) was night fighter but lost out to P-61 Black Widow.

A-26B, solid nose attack plane, gun heavy.
A-26C, glass nosed, norden bomb site, used as pathfinder (lead bomber who coordinated drop with it's norden bombsite for other planes).
Only difference in the two planes was the nose configuration.  Rest of the plane identical.

Typical bomber mission profile of A-26 Invaders:
Each five (5) A-26B's led by a single (1) A-26C lead bomber over targets as part of level bomber mission.  All drop ord on lead plane.  Then they would go to the deck to strafe targets of opportunity with all those .50 cals, and possibly rockets (up to 14 X 5").

A-26 Invaders were replacements for A-20's, B-26's, and B-25's.

If A-26 Invader were added to the game, it would have to be a perked plane.  Hopefully we'd get the nose configurations for both A-26C and A-26B.  As a perked plane, if a buff driver wanted to spend the extra perks, he should be able to add the drone A-26's, and operate as level medium bombers.  If planning to run as an attack plane, or buff hunter, he should run single.  If he wants to waste points on drones he will lose down on the deck, up to him.

Why limit it to an attack role, when they did a lot of level bombing missions before going to the deck?

The whole point of arguing for yet another American, late war, gun-heavy bomber is to give bomber drivers something OTHER than the Arado to spend their perk points on.  A buff perk point economy sink, that can handle multiple roles, and be fun to fly.  Give a reason for buff drivers to land after a mission, rather than bail out over the target after a drop.  

Invader is great at attacking GV's, buff hunting, as a penetration bomber against dar and ord, dropping a town, deacking, vulching,.... it is versatile.

Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2007, 06:22:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Mossie 16 is a likely perk bomber too.



Mossie 16 not on HTC's voting list though.  A-26 is.

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2007, 07:58:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
.
Why limit it to an attack role, when they did a lot of level bombing missions .


If we compare the A26 to WWII bombers that did do alot of level bombing then the A26 certainly did not do alot of level bombing............ its basically a very late war uber A20.    It will fill the samr role.

I think that it would be erronious to assume HTC will give it you as a formation option like the B26.

Maybe you should ask for clarification on the subject?
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Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2007, 10:44:56 AM »
TilT.

They actually did drop most of their ord in level bombing.   That's why every 6th A-26 Invader was a A-26C pathfinder.  After the drop, they went down low to strafe.  They also carried many rockets at times.

The A-26 was the replacement for the A-20, B-26, and B-25 late in the war.  It was meant to do all they could do and more.  Medium bomber, attack plane, low level bombing.  Would have had a night fighter/bomber destroyer version too, but the P-61 Black Widow got selected instead.

Moot point though.  A-26 won't make it through one of the next two rounds.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 10:53:56 AM by tedrbr »

Offline FiLtH

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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2007, 10:54:58 AM »
Thats what I said about Sanjia

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