G.55 goes down In the 1st round

[Hajo]

WilBuZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Hiyas Mate!!:aok

[Gianlupo]

Originally posted by Viking
"wasn't maneuverable" is a very subjective statement. One thing to remember about all WWII land based aircraft is that they all had similar landing speeds, and therefore had similar wing loading. Similar being the difference between a Spitfire and a Fw 190 or so. Since the Me 410 could carry a heavy load of ordinance and guns it stands to reason that a light configuration, say only two cannon and no bombs would have a rather low wing loading.

History tells us that the 110 "wasn't maneuverable " either, but we know that in the MA with a light fuel load and internal guns only the 110 can turn with most planes. I once out-turned and shot down a P-38 in a Ju88 with no bombs and only 25% fuel. That was fun.

From what I've read, the 110G2 had a wingloading of 205.6 Kg/sq.m, while the 410A-1 has 266.7 Kg/sq.m... of course this figures are for MTOW, and with less weight the  410 will have a lighter wingloading, but I guess that means the 410 had to be less maneuverable of a 110... that's what I meant.

I've also read that british pilots who tested it said that controls were sluggish, stall was sudden and abrupt and, in sharp turns it has the tendency of dropping wing. So, it'd not be easy to maneuver in combat against single engined fighters, unlike the 110 we have now.

[Viking]

Originally posted by humble
The basic loadout is just 2x20mm & 2 x 12.7. So it doesnt have more guns and more bombs. The mossie and 110G2 both seem to have a better combination of base guns and ord's (from what I can read.

The Me 410 could carry two 500 kg bombs in the bomb bay, and later they added two under-wing shackles for an additional two 500 kg bombs. That’s twice the 110G’s bomb load. Alternatively  the Me 410 could carry six or eight 20mm cannon in addition to the external bombs.

[Gianlupo]

Viking, wasn't that 4x50 kg bombs under wings?

[Viking]

Originally posted by Gianlupo
From what I've read, the 110G2 had a wingloading of 205.6 Kg/sq.m, while the 410A-1 has 266.7 Kg/sq.m... of course this figures are for MTOW, and with less weight the  410 will have a lighter wingloading, but I guess that means the 410 had to be less maneuverable of a 110... that's what I meant.

I've also read that british pilots who tested it said that controls were sluggish, stall was sudden and abrupt and, in sharp turns it has the tendency of dropping wing. So, it'd not be easy to maneuver in combat against single engined fighters, unlike the 110 we have now.

Oh the Bf 110G is lighter (2000-3000 lbs) and does have a lower wing loading than the Me-410, but the Me 410 has about 600 hp more. I don’t expect the 410 to be a better turner than the 110G, but I don’t expect it to be much worse either. In any case I don’t see why the 110G doesn’t out-turn the P-38L in Aces High, since the P-38 weighs more and has much less wing area. Perhaps the same reason … more power?

Also I have a feeling the 110G will be a different aircraft in terms of performance after it is updated, like almost all the other updated planes.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Gianlupo
Viking, wasn't that 4x50 kg bombs under wings?

They could take those too yes, but I've read in litterature and on the Luftwaffe Resource centre: "Two 1,102 lb. (500kg) Bombs And External Racks for two 1,102 lb. (500kg) Bombs"

[aztec]

You guys think too much, please stop, it frightens me.

[Husky01]

[Rash]

Originally posted by aztec
You guys think too much, please stop, it frightens me.

Yes, let nature take it's place and let mob/horde rule!

[Rino]

Originally posted by tedrbr
The problem with popular votes is often the majority of the voters don't know anything about their options.  Seeing the G.55 cut in the first round has me starting to believe this to be the case this time.

I didn't expect G.55 to beat out P-39 in the long run, but I'm starting to think P-39 won't make cut either.  I think it will come down to He-111 and B-25, based on name recognition.   I further think both would be LW hangar queens.

     I have been amazed by the number of posts in which you denigrate
the knowledge or intelligence of non-BBS posters.  Just because someone
doesn't post here doesn't make them clueless or uninformed.

     Not saying it's universal, but implying that everyone who isn't in the
"clique" is somehow dim is just plain insulting.

[humble]

Originally posted by Viking
I see Humble is spreading his usual nonsense in other threads than those specifically for the Me 410.

The only "nonsense" I see is yours. I'm simply asking questions. I used the standard criteria to determine wingloading. All planes function better when "light". You can't have 8x20mm+ords+DT's and be light.....sure give it all up and go with 2x20mm and light fuel load out...

and you'll still have a plane thats around 16,000 or 17,000 lbs...

So at best its got a wingloading over 40 lbs...

A "light" me-110 (12,000) comes in around 28 lbs. 410 is going to be a dog in a fighter role.....

[Viking]

Originally posted by humble
The only "nonsense" I see is yours. I'm simply asking questions.

Your previous post was not a question it was nonsense:

Originally posted by humble
The plane is almost 24,000 lbs...even taking of 2200 for ords its 21,500+...

so wingloading is roughly 55 lbs/sqf....the A-20 by comparision was just under 40 lbs/sqf {about same as Mosquito}. The 410 is a target drone. If they model it right it'll be a total flop in the MA......

And now you have revised your weight estimate down to 16-17,000 lbs since I educated you. Something I’m getting tired of btw.

Originally posted by humble
and you'll still have a plane thats around 16,000 or 17,000 lbs...

So at best its got a wingloading over 40 lbs...

So you’re now saying that a Me 410 has about the same wing loading of a Mosquito (as if you cant fly a Me 410 with less than 4-5,000 lbs of ammo and fuel). Ok I’ll accept that for now. The Mosquito is in fact a very maneuverable plane with a turning circle of just ¨50 feet more than the Bf 110G at 679 feet. In comparison the P-38L has a turning circle of 817 feet, 596 feet with full flaps. If the Me 410 turns as well as the Mossie I’ll be very pleased.

[FrodeMk3]

Rino quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tedrbr
The problem with popular votes is often the majority of the voters don't know anything about their options. Seeing the G.55 cut in the first round has me starting to believe this to be the case this time.

I didn't expect G.55 to beat out P-39 in the long run, but I'm starting to think P-39 won't make cut either. I think it will come down to He-111 and B-25, based on name recognition. I further think both would be LW hangar queens.
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I have been amazed by the number of posts in which you denigrate
the knowledge or intelligence of non-BBS posters. Just because someone
doesn't post here doesn't make them clueless or uninformed.

Not saying it's universal, but implying that everyone who isn't in the
"clique" is somehow dim is just plain insulting.
 
 
Actually Rino, I'd say it's because most people come to the boards, read a few posts, see all the flaming, bashing, and personal attacks, and pass up the BBS from then on.

If you go ingame and ask why people don't go to the boards more often, this is what you'll hear people say.(This was what I'd heard in about 6/10 querys on the subject.)

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by Rino
I have been amazed by the number of posts in which you denigrate
the knowledge or intelligence of non-BBS posters.  Just because someone
doesn't post here doesn't make them clueless or uninformed.

     Not saying it's universal, but implying that everyone who isn't in the
"clique" is somehow dim is just plain insulting.

Agreed. It seems to me to be the other way around, with most of the idiots finding their way here, and the smarter folks avoiding everything but the News and Announcements.