Author Topic: Round 2, What we have left in competition  (Read 612 times)

Offline tedrbr

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Round 2, What we have left in competition
« on: March 30, 2007, 03:16:34 PM »
P-39
A-26
me-410
He-111
B-25
Yak3

Okay.

P-39 Airacobra.
Early War American made fighter. No turbocharger, so primarily a low level fighter that the Soviets put to great use during WWII.   A total of 9,584 were produced, with over half being sent to the Soviet Union under the Lend-Lease program.   About 14 different versions to fight over.  Some with 37mm.  Some with 20mm Hispano. Some with .50's and .30's. More or less armor.  1,150 to 1,325 HP engines.

Would be a great addition to EW and MW for two dozen folks you could find in those arenas.  Added senerios for Eastern Front of the War.  May hold its own in low altitude furballs in LW arenas.

If the winner, I'd make the argument for addition to Russian plane set in Russian skin: Soviets used it far more than anyone else to great effect.  Recognize Lend Lease.  Recognize that second highest scoring Allied Ace was a Russian flying P-39's.

Being an American plane helps in popular vote.  Unsure if Airacobra well enough known by voters to make the cut to final vote.


Me-410.
I've leave for other to make the case for, as I'm not familiar enough with it's abilities.  The high designation number (410) may help it in the vote.... 410 is better than 262, 190, 234, etc....right?
Three versions that saw wide use?  

Would help fill out German plane set.  Would add to Eastern Front senerio play.  Not sure how it would fair in War Arenas, Mid-War and Late-War IIRC.  Not being a well known or American plane hurts it's popular vote chances.


He-111.
Superior bomber during the Spanish Civil War.  Outdated by time of the Battle of Britain, though still saw a lot of use there.  5,500 maxium bomb load, if external ord carried (slowing it down even more from
250 mph (400 km/h) top speed.  (435 km/h without the bomb load and at 50% fuel load);  20 minutes to 5,185 m (17,000 ft);  8,390 m (27,500 ft) service ceiling.
Would be addition to some early war senerios, the EW arena, and Battle of Britain.  Totally out classed for use in LW arena.

Expect He-111 to carry many votes because of name recognition, appearance in movies, Battle of Britain, and slight resemblance to cockpit of Millenium Falcon.


Yak-3
Russian air superiority fighter.  Better in some aspects to other Yaks in game already.  Possibly very short legs, as Yak-3 had lighter fuel load for reducing weight for its dogfighting role.  Addition to Russian plane set.  Additional furballer to the game.

Short legs, not being an American plane, and designated as Yak-3 (3 being lower than 9, has to be bad, right?)  all will hurt the Yak in popular vote.  Being a fighter will help it in popular vote.


B-25
American twin-engined medium bomber.
Nine versions of the B-25 to argue over.  Early war, mid-war, late war additions to argue over.   Less capable than B-26 and B-24 as a bomber.
Maximum speed: 275 mph__(B-26 = 287 mph__(B-24 = 290 mph)  (Krusty could catch it!  j/king!)
Combat radius: 1,350 mi___(B-26 = 999 nm)___(B-24 = 2,100 mi)
Service ceiling: 25,000 ft___(B-26 = 21,000 ft)__(B-24 =28,000 ft)
Ordnance Load: 3,000 lb___(B-26 = 4,000 lb)___(B-24 = 8,000 lb) ** Wiki Wrong again, sorry **
** Correction B-25B 2,000lbs, B-25C 3,000lbs **
Rate of climb: 790 ft/min___(B-26 = 1,300 at best?__(B-24 = 1,025 ft/min)


Doolittle Raid recognition, hope for mid/late war 75mm spud gun and massed .50's by some, or would the early war Doolittle plane be the one made?  Being an American plane will help in voting.  Widespread use among many nations during entire war.  Unsure if lower speeds and medium ord load would allow it to compete in the LW arenas.  Willing to bet a number of B-25 voters think it will come with CV-launch ability.


A-26 Invader
Late war medium level bomber/ ground attack fighter/ CAS platform.  Intended to replace A-20's, B-26's, and B-25's late during WWII.   2 versions, B-model solid nose gun package with 6 extra .50's, C-model glass nosed pathfinder with norden bombsite.  Only difference in versions found in the nose.
Up to 14 forward firing .50's in most B model Invaders.  Up to 8 or 10 forward firing .50's in C models (internal wing or ext gun pods).  Up to 14 X 5 inch rockets could be carried.  Could carry 2 torpedos.  Early versions had 8 ext gun pods for wings and only 6 nose cannon in B model, so HTC has some flexibility in finally load outs.

Maximum speed: 355 mph (308 knots, 570 km/h) (Krusty can't catch it....lol!)
Combat radius: 2,100 mi (1,800 nm, 3,400 km) (Drop Tanks could extend this range)
Service ceiling: 22,000 ft (6,700 m)
Ordnance Load: 4,000 lbs internally; 2,000 lbs on wing mounts.
Rate of climb: 1,250 ft/min (6.4 m/s)

Adds a perk ride to the bomber pilots in the game.  Multi-use plane that can be used as a level bomber, attack plane, and bomber destroyer.  Pure fun uber-strafer-ride that may be able to hold it's own against LaLas, Ponies, Nikis, and Spixteens hunting it (game...remember?) in LW.  Limited senerio use, outside of LW ETO.

Being an American plane, high performance, AW history, and potentially very gun heavy addition to the game in it's favor.  Lack of name recognition will hurt the Invader in popular vote.  Confusion over A-26 possibly being a gun heavy B-25 may help in votes as well.


That's how I see the remaining planes standing now against each other, as far as the forum goes.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 05:05:19 PM by tedrbr »

Offline Dichotomy

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Round 2, What we have left in competition
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2007, 03:21:12 PM »
does anybody have the line set?   I've got $100 I'd like to lay on the 25 if the spread looks good ;)
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2007, 03:26:57 PM »
B-25B had a 2,000lb bomb load.  B-25C had a 3,000lb bomb load.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Round 2, What we have left in competition
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2007, 03:28:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dichotomy
does anybody have the line set?   I've got $100 I'd like to lay on the 25 if the spread looks good ;)


I put my money that I don't have on the A-26 Invader
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Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2007, 03:30:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
B-25B had a 2,000lb bomb load.  B-25C had a 3,000lb bomb load.


Ugh! I was looking at B-25J specs.  That's even worse than I thought!

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2007, 03:35:58 PM »
I don't think the J could carry 6,000lbs... I think it was limited to 3x 1000lb bombs. I thought the -C couldn't carry as much, and it was increased later (with the stronger engines).

Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2007, 03:52:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I don't think the J could carry 6,000lbs... I think it was limited to 3x 1000lb bombs. I thought the -C couldn't carry as much, and it was increased later (with the stronger engines).



Okay.  Checked several other sources.  They agree, typical bomb load was 3,000 pounds, although one site listed 4,000 lbs for short range missions.

That makes the B-25 actually less capable as a bomber than the B-26.  Joy.

.... probably what we'll get stuck with too then.

Offline moot

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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2007, 04:00:17 PM »
Whatever makes it, it'd be great if it were in as many variants as Waffle can make, and had as many loadout options as was used in WWII.
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Offline tedrbr

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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 05:09:23 PM »
If the B-25 makes it , I insist it be allowed to spawn from CVs.

It will never get up off the deck with the game's flight model, and no headwind under its wings, and full bomb load,..... but it will be fun watching all the failed attempts to go "splash".

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Offline JB73

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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2007, 05:12:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
If the B-25 makes it , I insist it be allowed to spawn from CVs.

It will never get up off the deck with the game's flight model, and no headwind under its wings, and full bomb load,..... but it will be fun watching all the failed attempts to go "splash".

"Save me, Ben Afflec!  Save Me!"

it has been stated by Pyro himself it will NOT be available on CV's


just an FYI.
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2007, 05:20:42 PM »
EDIT: Err.. that might be misconstrued, seeing his emoticon there...

I'll change it to:

"I'm sure he's kidding."

Offline Viking

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Re: Round 2, What we have left in competition
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2007, 05:27:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
Me-410.
I've leave for other to make the case for, as I'm not familiar enough with it's abilities.  The high designation number (410) may help it in the vote.... 410 is better than 262, 190, 234, etc....right?
Three versions that saw wide use?  

Would help fill out German plane set.  Would add to Eastern Front senerio play.  Not sure how it would fair in War Arenas, Mid-War and Late-War IIRC.  Not being a well known or American plane hurts it's popular vote chances.
 


Since I really like this plane I’ll make a case for it:

There really was just one major version of the Me 410 since the plane was specifically designed to be a multi-purpose fighter-bomber able to use many field-conversion kits. The only difference between the A and B series was in standard armament, so that can be just an option in the hangar (the B was supposed to get new engines, but they were not ready in time).

To make a long story short: The Me 410 A/B was a heavy fighter-bomber almost identical in weight and size as the P-38. However the Me 410 had a lower wing loading than the P-38L and better power loading (P-38 had turbos though which helped a lot at higher altitudes). The Me 410 is faster than a Mosquito FB.VI. at 388 mph! The Me 410 can carry more than 4000 lbs of bombs in the bomb bay and on two under-wing shackles. The Me 410 could carry up to eight … EIGHT! … 20mm cannons, two 30mm high velocity cannons + two 20mm, and its most endearing feature the 50mm cannon with a telescopic sight!

This plane is pure testosterone!

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the Me 410 saw service from 1943 to mid-1944 in the west as a bomber-destroyer, and as a ground attack plane in the east until the end of the war. More than 1100 were made.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 05:42:28 PM by Viking »

Offline moot

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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2007, 05:44:48 PM »
Was Shrage Musik used on the 410?
I understand it not being too fair in the MA, especially parked under Lancasters, but in CT, it would be worth having, and the BK5 as well.
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Offline Viking

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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2007, 05:51:52 PM »
No I don't think so, and there was no dedicated night fighter variant of the Me 410 either. The Bf 110G-4 and Ju 88G did that job with 20mm and 30mm Shrage Musik batteries.

Offline moot

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« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2007, 06:16:57 PM »
If the 410 can get MK103s, it's worth voting for... If it also has a BK5 option (Perked! :)), it's really worth voting for... all in all, I just watched some vids, and it really is that cool :D
Me-110 who??
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