ok, bomber sis.. er, guys. I gotta ask..

[Bluedog]

Each to thier own.
IMHO, nothin' beats gettin' 6 or 7 squaddies together in a nice tight bomber formation and boldly going off to ruin some dweebish furballer's day, along with that of all his peers.
It is truely great fun, just knowing that by dropping a hangar or two, all those low alt single engine fools have to fly further to get thier 'furball fix'....enabling the guys who play for a purpose to get on with having fun.


Apart from the 'each to thier own' bit...the above argument is as rediculous as calling bomber pilots 'no skill boring A-holes' etc.
Everyone plays for their own fun, wether they get that from flying fighters, bombers, jabos....whatever, that's their call.
None of us can realistically say that 'our' particular style of gameplay, or 'simulation' if you prefer, is any better or worse than any other guys', we all just take what is available to us (the AH software) and make the best of it in our own way...if you dont like what some other guy is doing...stiff watermelon mate, chances are he's not real impressed with your style either, agree to disagree...or virtually kill each other, the choice is yours, and it's just as valid a choice as that made by the guy at 29k in his bomber otw to take out an FH or two.

Just my 2C, which, considering the fact I'm an Australian, and our current exchange rate...probably isnt worth a great deal
<S> Blue

[lazs1]

blue... try to read what I have written... i don't give a watermelon how people enjoy the game so long as it doesn't have an unrealistic and lopsided, huge affect on my way of playing.   What you have said in your first paragraph is more likely than the reverse, me affecting the bomber sis.. guys game.   A few guys with very little skill can ruin it for many... and do.
lazs

[texace]

i don't give a watermelon how people enjoy the game so long as it doesn't have an unrealistic and lopsided, huge affect on my way of playing.

You did it again. You are making this thread out to say "Bombers are unrealistic and therefore my gameplay is affected so much that I must go to the BBS and complain."

I said it before and I'll say it again...IF YOU THINK THE BOMBERS AND UNREALISTIC AND NOT FUN TO FLY, DO NOT FLY THEM!!!!

I could care less that there are problems with them. You are saying anyone who flies the bombers are no-skilled A-Holes with nothing better to do that pork some fields, and that you are so unskilled that you were shot down multiple times by buffs in the past that you just figured that it was the game, not your lack of skill that got you killed.

 

A few guys with very little skill can ruin it for many... and do.

I find this very hard to believe. You honestly think that a bomber destroying a field so as his country can capture it is ruining the fun of some people? Bulls***.
If you let that bomber get to the field without opposition, it's yer own damn fault.
Don't come here whining about bombers just because they ruin yer furballing fun when they kill a field......

"Would you like some cheese with that whine?"

[deSelys]

Lazs, my boy, can you explain me something:

Why do you pay 30$ a month to furball when you can do it for free on MSN Gaming Zone playing CFS or CFSII (no bombers / no vehicles / no strat to spoil your fun)? Maybe you don't like the FM?? Baahh, furball is (almost) all Turn & Burn anyway...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I don't care if people want exclusively to furball, they paid as much as me so they are entitled to have the fun they want. But when one of those guys is spitting nasty words to people who just want to play otherwise, I can't keep my big mouth shut anymore.
Lazs, that bomber pilot who came high above your furball and killed all the FH may possibly be a 'dweeb', maybe you would chew him in the H2H...BUT I still think he showed much more tactical sense than you (I'm talking about MA tactical sense, not WWII).

Although I fly mostly fighters, I believe that bombers are essential to any WWII flight sim.

de Selys
Airman
332nd Flying Mongrels

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]

[ispar]

Originally posted by texace:
Those who squeak about bombers being worthless or "bad" are usually those who yell at bomber pilots for killing furball fields or removing easy targets for vulchers. I truely will be sad/angry if HTC removes the bombers just so some newbie Quakers can have their little f***ing furball fests.

<pcsqueakmode> Look, I have one simple request, and that is if you're going to call people quakers, do it with a lowercase "q" please. The reason is that the uppercase implies the Religious Society of Friends, which is bit annoying. Yeah, yeah, I know, but when it come to this I am a sensitive pc squeak, ok? Thanks  </pcsqueakmode>

Bombers, bombers, ra ra ra!

 

[Hangtime]

damn... I'm bout outta popcorn.

Chit.. beers low too.

ROAD TRIP!

<pulls up in front of stop 'n rob>

*BOOM* <buff at 25k blows beer hanger into  oblivion>

DAMMIT! ..fediddlein useless buff dweebs...

[texace]

Noted ispar..<G>

 

[Naso]

ROTFL Hangtime

[Geeb]

lmao a little coms & all would be over for the buff. fighter dweebs come in all sizes some who like hi & some who like low killin buffs is piece of cake. at less than 26k   & then if u kill buff above 26k then u can realy laugh cus it only took u 15min compared to his 30 to 45 min trip. to were u kilt him not to drop. have seen better organization in that other game than i have here. & they have realy stupid radio  
realy drunk right now so PLEASE EXCUSE THE ENGLISH
cant figure out how to reword it so i have been playing with fighters the last 2weeks or so...& i figure the bomber is under modeled? imho but... i reasonably inteligent cus i don attack from 6? i try for slashing (hmmmmm seems to me that i read about that once? nah )
so far the lessons i have learned in ftrs
don worry the list is verry short
if u doing lastditch attempt at defending vulched field?
up a spit from hangar (unless u know the dir vulcher headed in
niki got better bombs & it wiggles good
the 109g10? still beyond me
ultimate jabo f4u-d got 2k launches everywhere & i can kill cv if i drop on it 3 times
NOW MY REAL QUESTION IS WHY EVEN BOTHER HAVING FRIKIN BUFFS u dont want em fine HTC jus bout elimenated the use for em nyway. lets get rid of the gvs & ak & ships too?
that way u could have the game u want? aka VULCHING damn i love it <S> to all that repeatedly did nothing but up at 15 mindu i wus starting to feel guilty

done

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Geeb ]

[lazs1]

you guys refuse to get it... I don't want to cap fields or waste time climbing up to some lone suicide buff just to game a kill on a joke modeled buff.   I have better things to do and more realistic fights to fight but... if no one bothers to climb up or cap then... The bombers  game ridden ordinanance will smart bomb it's way into ruining the game for people.  damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I don't carry bombs/jabo.   It is too silly.  I can't even kill a bomber hanger with mag's if I wanted too.   The effect that bombers have on the fighter game is huge.  The effect that fighters have on the bomber game is minimal.   In WWII the exact oppossite was true.   Bombers didn't take out an airfields ability to fly fighters but fighters could strafe away the fields ability to launch bombers.   The fighters were in revetments or back in the woods/jungle but bombers were out in the open.   Just big fat turds of a target.  

One lone bomber just shouldn't be able to do much damage to an airfield.   I don't care how that is achieved.   Anything from making planes of all types limited to however many can be in revetments to making the bomb accuracy realistic to just throwing em out of the game but... There isn't anyone who isn't uncomfortable with the way they and their effect on the game is modeled.   I would like nothing better than to be able to ignore em or to stafe em on the runway.

Oh... "quakers" would seem to apply more to the "strat" wimps than to the furballers since what they are doing is so silly and unrealistic "better check the health level on your city"   "power up on that radar"  "health level down on airfield".   LOL!  What a joke.  What the strat and/or bomber guys are doing is pure game/quake with nothing to do with simulation.

BTW... how does a Quaker justify killing people.. even virtually?
lazs

[AKSWulfe]

Lazs, because it has a bigger effect on your game you don't want it to be available?

If the bombers were made as accurate as possible, first of all it would take 3 or 4 fighters to down a B17 or Lancaster (those things are amazingly tough in real life) and the bombers would have to use otto to survive during their bomb runs since it takes roughly 10 minutes to compute wind drift, deviation, and the rate at which the norden lines up the target so that it can accurately drop the bombs.

We all know otto is simply flying ack, and we certainly don't want that.
-SW

[Pepe]

It does not have to be flying ack. It could be set so it is only active when pilot is on the bomber position, looking down, and over 10k.

If it works like the field ack now, It's quite ok for me  

Now firing through plane's surfaces, and the perfect conv. of each and every gun is the real freak in this particular field of buff modelling, IMO.

Cheers,

Pepe

[deSelys]

Originally posted by lazs1:
Blah Blah Blah...The effect that bombers have on the fighter game is huge.  The effect that fighters have on the bomber game is minimal.   In WWII the exact oppossite was true.   Bombers didn't take out an airfields ability to fly fighters but fighters could strafe away the fields ability to launch bombers...Blah Blah Blah  
lazs

LOL Lazs I suggest you never say that to a real bomber crew or you'll be in trouble!

Bombers had less influence on the outcome of war than fighters??? I remind you that fighters are essentially a DEFENSIVE weapon (defending territory against bombers or defending bombers against other fighters). Bombers are the offensive part of air power. Jabos cross the two, without being as good as the pure fighter or the pure bomber.

Bombers haven't bombed airfield. Does Battle of britain ring a bell here? Without Hitler's decision to bomb the cities after the Berlin symbolic bombing, the RAF would have been exhausted due to damege to airfields.
When allies took the initiative, they went for airplanes factories instead of grass airfield with dispersed planes. Those raids greatly limited the production of axis powers.
If I follow you, the 500-1,000 bombers raid where organized to keep the bomber boys busy and entertain everybody with the fireworks?
Ususally, strafing damage (with the exception of planes destroyed on the ground) was repaired in a couple of hours thanks to the 'help' of local population...Time to go back to school...

Bombers aren't modelled 100% correct. Agree. Neither are the fighters:
-no radiator flaps
-no engine temperature management
-no O2 management
-instantaneous bail-out
-you can squeeze your head in impossible places
-icons....
-unlimited lives
-pilot doesn't get tired when pulling Gs during long minutes
-no icing


Do you want me to go on?

A simulation will never be perfect.

If you feel something is deeply wrong in the bombers modelling, try to suggest constructive improvements instead of calling names to the people who don't play the GAME like you want them to.

de Selys
Airman
332nd Flying Mongrels

[Seeker]

In actual fact the Allied philosophy of strategic bombing was a failure, as all strategic bombing was doomed to be until the advent of a truely strategic weapon (Hiroshima).

The LW's tactical bombing, however, worked well when closely tied to Whermacht objectives.

The objection I have to the way buffs are used in AH is that we have strategic bombers pursuing tactical targets. Just about the only buff to see strategic use in AH is the Arado.

These may be of interest:
 http://www.anesi.com/ussbs02.htm
 http://www.anesi.com/ussbs01.htm

However, Buffs are nowhere near as "gamey" as the C.V.'s.

[texace]

Alright, after re-reading all of lazs' posts in this thread, I kinda get the jist of what he's saying, and here it is: (p.s. lazs, don't tell me you never said these, read yer posts)

1.)Bombers should be removed from the game. They are too gamey to be even considered for a flight sim such as this. Those who fly them are skill-less A-Holes with nothing better to do than ruin my flight experience. I don't pay $30 a month to have a bomber ruin my "historic dogfights" (aka furballs)

2.)While we're at it, let's remove the C-47. That way, I won't have to worry about stupid enemies capturing my fields, so the "historic dogfights" (aka furballs) won't end.

3.)Let's also remove the ability for fighters to jabo. If they can jabo, they can close fields and deprive me of my "historic dogfights" (aka furballs)

4.)Also, I want HTC to make a map that has only 3 indestructble fields on it, so that we can all engage in "historic dogfights" (aka furballs)

Face it, lazs. You are getting pissed off at bombers and bomber pilots because they aren't playing the way you want. None of your posts make any valid points as to why they should be removed, all I've seen is that they are depriving you of your "historic dogfights" (aka furballs) and that you're mad because of this.

Until you can make a valid point as to why the bombers should be removed, rather than complaining just because YOU have a problem with them, then maybe someone will listen. But until you stop being so self centered and thinking "I am Lazs, the center of the universe. All shall do as I command" no one will back you...