Chambering Semiauto First Shots

[Xargos]

Halo, Regardless of what anyone said, you where better off asking, then not and getting hurt or killed.  I grew up with firearms, was shooting in the woods with my .22 alone before I was 10, and it took proper training to get me out of allot of bad habits.

P.S.  I have respect for you for asking, even though I was not able to help.

[Terror]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
My dad keeps one chamber of his revolver empty so he doesnt shoot his foot off incase he drops it.

This was not uncommon.  Some revolvers had a "fixed" firing pin on the hammer.  The actual firing pin is an integral part of the hammer.  If this type of firearm is dropped on it's hammer, it had a good chance of discharging the round sitting under the uncocked hammer.

Most modern revolvers do not use this design anymore.

Terror

[lazs2]

dago... you are funny.. you talk about how modern you are until... they bring up polymer frame semi autos and then you go right back to horse and buggy days and curse the "newfangled" polymer owners...   for no reason.

the reasons you gave for me liking wheelguns were not the ones I gave.

For all around usefulness in a handgun..  revolvers are still the way to go... for guys new to handguns or those who want one for the home and don't want to constantly practice with it.. the revolver is best for them.

for hitting plates at short range and for getting a lot of lead in the air without reloading.. the semi auto is best.    As a last ditch defensive weapon for untrained military personel who will be carrying a battle rifle too... the  semi auto is probly best.

the recoil of magnums is not severe.. it can also be tamed with reloads.  The magnum is a very versitile handgun round in a revolver..  

I own both revolvers and semi autos..   I enjoy both and I reload...  I shoot both and am fully aware of the limitations of both.   the limitations of semi autos are just a lot worse once you step out of the narrow confines of what they are good for.

If I only could have one action type I would not choose the self shucker because of those limitations.

oh... and I am no doubt taller than you so it is most likely you who are compensating by using the gun most popular in movies and such.

lazs

[Xargos]

Lazs, what brand of powders do you prefer?

[lazs2]

oh.. an off duty woman sheriff in sac here yesterday came home and was attacked by a man in her bedroom... she had a backup revolver... probly a j frame smith or such and shot the guy twice in the head...  

he died.   she didn't.

almost any handgun would have worked in this situation but she was struggling with the guy.. the simplicity of a small revolver at close range one handed is pretty nice.   I don't think she though much about sights or safeties or proper grip or stance or even trigger finger placement... she probly wasn't thinking about recovery for a second shot... she just yanked back on the trigger when the gun was pointed at his head..... twice.

lazs

[Xargos]

A friend back in the '80s had this guy come up to him and put a gun in his face demanding his money.  So he reached into his coat pocket acting like he was getting his wallet, but in fact emptied his .38 into the robbers chest instead.  The robber never saw the gun.

[Dago]

Originally posted by lazs2
dago... you are funny.. you talk about how modern you are until... they bring up polymer frame semi autos and then you go right back to horse and buggy days and curse the "newfangled" polymer owners...   for no reason.

the reasons you gave for me liking wheelguns were not the ones I gave.

For all around usefulness in a handgun..  revolvers are still the way to go... for guys new to handguns or those who want one for the home and don't want to constantly practice with it.. the revolver is best for them.

for hitting plates at short range and for getting a lot of lead in the air without reloading.. the semi auto is best.    As a last ditch defensive weapon for untrained military personel who will be carrying a battle rifle too... the  semi auto is probly best.

the recoil of magnums is not severe.. it can also be tamed with reloads.  The magnum is a very versitile handgun round in a revolver..  

I own both revolvers and semi autos..   I enjoy both and I reload...  I shoot both and am fully aware of the limitations of both.   the limitations of semi autos are just a lot worse once you step out of the narrow confines of what they are good for.

If I only could have one action type I would not choose the self shucker because of those limitations.

oh... and I am no doubt taller than you so it is most likely you who are compensating by using the gun most popular in movies and such.

lazs

lazs, you are a funny guy yourself.  Statements you have made in relation to firearms would keep real experts in stitches for hours.

You refuse to accept the opinions of documented lifetime experts who have 100x the experience you have, because you "reload".

Now, after you tell me the magnum makes you tall, you have to reload down to handle the recoil?

I have never claimied to be "modern", I have claimed the semi-auto is a later design more advanced gun.  That is true enough  Not sure how or where you misconstrued  that idea.

Yeah, the semi is only good for untrained military, as you just stated, sure.  But, oh wait, all the special ops devils, all service special operators are using the semi-auto.  Are they all "untrained"??  Are you more trained and experienced than they are?  Have you been in more firefights, attended more structured training programs?

You speak of the limitations of semi-autos.  Yeah, they are limited, I have only heard of them being used for self defense, hunting, military use in combat, high level competitive combat and target shooting like Camp Perry,  law enforcement primary weapon, and fun plinking.  I guess the revolver would be the choice for everything else.  

And while I am at it, you often talk about how you only need two shots in a live gunfight and don't need a high cap magazine.  This begs the question, just so we are understanding your bona fides in making that statement, how many live gun fights have you been in?  You know, ones where someone was nearby actually shooting a firearm at you with the intent to kill you?  Must be several for you to speak with such conviction about your cool and composed response to such a dangerous high stress situation.  I would be interested to hear about your experiences so I can learn.  

(none for me I am happy to say, but I have been in sight of a couple back where I grew up, otherwise, my experience being shot at is limited to dart guns, bb guns and paintball guns)

BTW, do you have a CCW?  I have one, but never bother to carry a pistol, I got in in case the need ever seemed to arise, but never has, I live in a much better community than I did where I grew up.

[lazs2]

dago dago dago...  I never said that I had to load magnums down or even up for that matter... I said that I had the choice...  I have at least two loads I like for almost every gun I own.    

You claim that semi autos are best for hunting and long range shooting?   Plinking?  Reloading?    those are important things for most hobby handgunners.

I don't see your point?  you like to pick up brass?  you like to be humiliated or frustrated with your 45 at long range?

now.. the old gunfight thing...  civilians are not military.   They don't face military situations.   Marshal puts together a pretty comprehensive database on gunfights on the street.   It is a fact that one round well placed it the ticket.   The fights last a very short time in almost every case and only a very few rounds are fired.

I have been shot at once.  I would say that it was not a very typical situation.  I have seen two fights that ended in shooting.   one in a serious wound...  that one involved a lever action rifle that did not come into play and a 38 revolver that did.. the one where no one was hurt involved a browning high power and a 1911.    I would say that in all 8 shots were fired in the latter.   one in 38 incident and one by me in the one I was in.   I didn't hit anything and didn't expect to.   It was about 30 yards and all I wanted to do was show that I could shoot back.  

I am not a particularly brave man but I am pragmatic and sensible... I was very frightened afterwards in two of the cases.

This is very limited experiance and I can't imagine the exact same things ever happening again.

I claim no expertese in this.. I can only say that it sure seemed to me that the type of gun was not very important so long as everyone had handguns.   the 38 incident did have some things in common in what I think would be typical tho...  there was a struggle.    It was arms length when the shot was fired.   I  think that a revolver is best in that.   I have always thought about that and a j frame shrouded smith or similar always sticks in my mind as being a great gun for that.

The one I was shot at made me realize that a man 30 yards or so away running and shooting was not much of a danger to me no matter how many rounds he had.

Now, they come in 12 oz packages and in .357... I own one now.

Read marshals "street stoppers"   it is simply a good compilation of gunfights and types of guns used in real gunfights on the street.   not the military or police where choice is dictated by agency and policy but real life.

I seen someone double action a smith model 59 at someone else about 4 times on an empty chamber once too.  

I have seen too many semi autos jam..  I can't spend a day at the range without seeing it.    My Kimber is very reliable tho.   so is my makarov... cz... not so much.

I would say that some of the "experts" are not as expert as you say... even clint from thunder ranch has been using (and put his name on) a 44 special revolver.

One heck of a lot more gunfights have been finished on the street with revolvers than semi autos.    what they did then and are doing now.. they will continue to do.

Reloading is just another level of the handgun experiance.  

You are someone who reads about guns from people who write about guns... you don't reload and you would sell a polymer gun without even trying it.  because..  well.. who knows?

So why should I listen to you?   I can read the same people.  I don't need your interpretation of what they say..  I can see you have trouble in that department in any case.

I have all types of handguns.  I reload for em and use em for a variety of things.

I freely admit that if I were in the military that I would narrow down my choices.   More likely tho.. they would be narrowed down for me.  Same for police.

lazs

[Dago]

Originally posted by lazs2


You claim that semi autos are best for hunting and long range shooting?   Plinking?  Reloading?    those are important things for most hobby handgunners.

[/unquote]

Did I?  Or are you having as much trouble understanding what I say as you are the capabilities of the semi-auto?  Maybe you should try reading again.

I don't see your point?  you like to pick up brass?  you like to be humiliated or frustrated with your 45 at long range?   [/unquote]

We have been through this before, you really need to work on your memorization skills.  Long range shooting is done with a rifle. Right tool for the job and all.   Anyone who desires to shoot handguns long range buys a Thompson Center Contender.  Right tool for the job and all.

now.. the old gunfight thing...  civilians are not military.   They don't face military situations.   Marshal puts together a pretty comprehensive database on gunfights on the street.   It is a fact that one round well placed it the ticket.   The fights last a very short time in almost every case and only a very few rounds are fired.   [/unquote]

 You didn't really say anything there, is would be obvious that one well placed round is the way to go, but you ignore the reality that in the excitement and stress of an actual gunfight, nobody just calming stands there and takes time to carefully place one round.  Nobody.   Only on TV and in the movies, where I am afraid you are getting too much of your experience and basing your judgements on.

You are someone who reads about guns from people who write about guns... you don't reload and you would sell a polymer gun without even trying it.  because..  well.. who knows?

So why should I listen to you?   I can read the same people.  I don't need your interpretation of what they say..  I can see you have trouble in that department in any case.



lazs

Read?  I offered to put you in touch with Elmer Balance when we were debating the M1 Garand -vs- the M1A, and you refused.  You decided you knew more than Elmer.  You insulted his knowledge.  Elmer is the most experienced expert in the world on both those weapons.   He doesn't write about them, but if you email or better call him, he can tell you in great detail everything about them.  He was the go to guy in the US Army for years.  He was a competitive shooter on the Army Marksman Team, he was their armorer.  He has fired tens of thousands of rounds through both.  He was the guy who accurized them, set them both up for national match level competition.  This man single handed developed the M1A from the M14 and secured BATF writting authorization to build a semi-auto version.  The FIRST GUY TO DO THAT.  Do a little research on Springfield Armory when it was in Devine Texas.

From Wikipedia

The M1A rifle is manufactured by Springfield Armory [1] of Geneseo Illinois. This is not the same U.S. Government owned Springfield Armory, Inc. of Massachusetts, which was closed down in 1968 by the U.S. Department of Defense. The term "M1A" is a proprietary title given by Elmer C. Balance who started the privately owned Springfield Armory, Inc. of Devine, Texas, to his M-14 pattern rifle. The receiver is made from investment cast 8620 alloy steel. Early M1A's were built with surplus G.I. parts until Springfield Armory began manufacturing their own. Elmer sold the "Springfield Armory' to the now current owners.

This man is the expert.  He knows more about both the M1 Garand and M1A than you will ever know about your own hand.  Yet , you basically slammed him and indicated you knew better.

I am past feeling sorry for you and your delusions.  I now feel sorry for anyone foolish enough to listen to you pretend you are an expert on firearms.  Sadly, I have seen too many self-appointed experts in my life.  Aviation, my career field is full of them, and so is the gun world.

[sgt203]

I may be repeating some things here but in answer to the orginal post:

1. No I never have any problems chambering the first rounds into my semi-auto... Fired many thousands of rounds from my Glock 22 (40 cal) without problems..

My guess would be if you are consistantly having this problem with multiple magazines it is simply "user error".

Ensure you pull the slide back all the way and let it move forward on its own. Alot of feed problems of this nature are caused by the operator either failing to pull back all the way or "guiding" the slide back with your hand on the slide, not allowing it to fully chamber your round.

And as a side note it IS recommended if you keep your spare magazines loaded you rotate your loaded mags.. ie if you like having 3 mags fully loaded at all times you should have 6 spare mags and rotate which ones you keep loaded.

If you continue to have feed problems I suggest taking your gun and magazines to a gunsmith to ensure they are functioning properly... but my educated duess would be the above suggestion should solve your problems..


<<>>

[lazs2]

where to begin...  long range shooting and picking up brass...

You say that long range shooting is best done with a rifle.. of course..  all shooting is best done with a rifle.. what is your point?  if you are out plinking and don't have a rifle... do you go sit in the car and hug your 45 while the rest of us are out having fun with the challenge of hitting a rock or bucket at 400 yards with a handgun?   Oh wait... don't go off and sulk just yet... be sure to clean up all the brass you threw all over the countryside with your semi auto before you go.

you will lose options and you will have to pick up your brass and if you reload the brass won't last as long and you will have to load within narrow confines.

ought six versus .308... you claimed the 308 was more powerful... anything you said after that about the rifles that shoot em was not worth listening to.   You claim I made fun of your expert... I did not.   I admitted that gunsmiths are concentrating on the fake m14's and doing a really good job on accuracy..  I also claimed that the gas system in the garand was inherently more accurate.  I don't  think your expert would disagree..  In fact.. if you could make one of the fake m14's so that it took it's gas for the piston from farther up the barrel then it would get more accurate..

I did not say anything about your expert like what you claim.

I have told you to read about real gunfights.  winners do indeed take their time and shoot when others are shooting at them.  Often.. the winner is not even aware of the bullets around him.

A rifle is best.. If you have to have a handgun only tho... it might as well be a powerful revolver because they are just a lot more versitile and fun.   There is less to think about and they are safer for the average person.

With a semi auto your choices for safe carry are....  a state of readiness that is far from ready... unloaded pretty much.. or... a horrible trigger pull for the first round and a semi horrible one for the next ones or... ready to fire and depending on some form of safety device and levers and wheels...  or...

a very light trigger pull for every round with about a quarter inch or more of travel.. people accidentally discharge these glock like systems all the time.

A revolver is good for the person who just needs a handgun for home defense or carry.. it is reliable and simple.  It has plenty of ammo load for any situation a civilian is likely to encounter.   It is safe to carry in a ready to go condition.   If you step things up a notch and enjoy firearms...  the revolver allows you to enjoy all kinds of variety.  It is more powerful and it is easy to learn reloading ammo for.

If you are a cop or a military man and are issued a weapon as a last ditch defensive weapon... the semi auto may be best with some handling training... If you play some kind of gun game where shooting paper people  or plates as fast as you can with as many rounds as you can... you will be hard pressed to do better than a semi auto.  

lazs

[Dago]

Do you ever stop lieing to support your prejudices?

Elmer Balance stated without reservation the M14 gas system was superior to the M1 Garand.  Two reasons, one, the shorter Op Rod on the M14 was not subject to the harmonics and bending the M1 Garand Op Rod was.  Two, having the gas cylinder near the end of the barrel caused a disturbance to the bullet just as it was to exit the barrel. Haven't you wondered even for a minute why it was moved forward on the upgraded version of the rifle the M14?  So, no, despite your single opinion that the M1 Garand gas system placement is better, you are wrong, and all expert I have heard weigh in on this agree to that.

I didn't say the .308 was more powerful, but don't let that stop you from again bringing more lies to the debate, it seems to be your only tool.   I said it was considered more accurate.   You only countered with bullet drop charts.

Tell me lazs, why do the overwhelming majority of sniper rifles today shoot the .308, (the only other cartridge used is the .50) if the 06 is such a great and accurate round?  Surely it isn't because the militaries of the world can't afford it.  They spend millions on sniper equipment and rounds, yet they ignore the 30-06 for a lesser round?  Yeah right.

Why isn't your beloved M1 Garand and 30-06 making a big impact at rifle competitions?   Virtually unseen anymore at national level competitions?  What do those uneducated not know?  Surely, they would know the superiority if only they reloaded.  

It's funny you stand so alone one all your stances, so few agree with you in the real world of shooting.

And, btw, I don't believe you were ever in a gunfight, your repeated claims about taking your time and shooting accurate engaged to the contrary.,

[john9001]

now i don't know if the 308 is better than the 30-06 but i do know why the M14 used the 308 which is the 7.62 NATO round. This was done to standardize the NATO ammo to one caliber 308/7.62 for resupply purposes.

As i have said before i have used both the M-1 and the M-14 in the service and for practical battle field purposes both rifles have the same accuracy, example i have fired 10 bullseyes out of 10 shots at 500 yds with iron sights with both rifles, those were standard issue rifles and mil issue ammo, if you need more accuracy than that your just being fussy.

[Hornet33]

Why the hell are you two even bothering with this discussion. Wheel guns vs autos??? Who cares? Shoot what works for you and stop trying to convert the rest of the world to your preferance in handguns.

I own several of each. I enjoy shooting them all. Around town I carry an auto if I carry at all. Either my .45 or my 9mm. Why??? Because if I ever need it I just FEEL more secure with the added firepower an auto gives me. 30 rds with my 9mm in two mags or 12rds with a wheel gun. I'd rather have the 30 rds and not need them then punch out 12 and then realize I need more. I don't want to go out with a half dozen speed loaders for a wheel gun hanging off my belt.

Now if I'm out camping or hiking I tend to carry my .357 Magnum with a spare speed loader. That's a better round for dealing with wild animals if I run across one, but I always keep the first round in the chamber loaded with snake shot with a couple extra shot shells in my pocket.

Again though, it's all personal preferance. I can hit whatever I aim at with either type of gun, but what I choose to use depends on what I'm doing. I don't believe there is one gun that will work for every situation, that's why I own many guns. I can choose the right gun for the right situation and I'm good to go.

Lazs, Dago, you guys are killing me with your posts though.

[Dago]

I agree to each his own, and I mentioned it in an earlier post.

I just find it irritating that lazs feels the need to come in here, pretend to be an expert, then lie about semi's to try and make the revolver look superior.

If he instead told the truth, it might be a lot differant.