Author Topic: Chambering Semiauto First Shots  (Read 2667 times)

Offline Xargos

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2007, 10:54:40 PM »
I'm sorry Halo, I just don't want you to get hurt from us giving you bad info.  It would be nice if we could hold it in our hands in order to evaluate it properly.
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Halo

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2007, 10:57:49 PM »
(quote)  The slide should ONLY lock open if you shoot the magazine dry. Or pull the slide back over an already empty magazine.  (unquote)

Yep, that's what it does.  It never locks open at the range until the magazine is dry.  It does lock open at home sometimes if I pull back too hard in my supersafe empty gun drills.

My poor XD.  Under suspicion because I dared to ask a klutzy question.  Oh well.  Hey, I have no pride when it comes to needing to learn, especially about weapons.
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Offline Viking

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2007, 11:02:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Halo
The XD has never locked open when I'm firing it.  Only when I'm doing home drill with an UNLOADED magazine.  


I see. I mistakenly thought you had trouble chambering the first round of a loaded magazine and inadvertently locked the slide open by pulling to hard on it. I would recommend that you buy dummy rounds to practice on (they are brightly colored to avoid a mixup with live rounds).

Offline Halo

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2007, 11:02:30 PM »
(quote)  I'm sorry Halo, I just don't want you to get hurt from us giving you bad info. It would be nice if we could hold it in our hands in order to evaluate it properly.  (unquote)

That's okay, and I really do appreciate everyone's insight.  Thought it might be a useful topic, but it seems I have needlessly alarmed some.  

Don't worry, I always err on the side of caution.  My home situation is relatively secure and affords me sufficient time to load a weapon in my own super cautious way, which I do practice often enough to stay reasonably competent.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. (Seneca, 1st century AD, et al)
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. (Anne Herbert, 1982, Sausalito, CA)
Paramedic to Perkaholics Anonymous

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2007, 11:06:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Halo
It does lock open at home sometimes if I pull back too hard in my supersafe empty gun drills.


You are NOT pulling back too hard then. You are drilling the wrong way. What you WILL end up with is a failure to chamber under stress. Why? Because you repeatedly practice NOT pulling the slide ALL THE WAY BACK. That is an EXCELLENT way to learn to produce a failure to chamber or feed on a regular basis, especially under stress. You are teaching your muscles, and your sub-conscious memory, NOT to pull the slide all the way back. You muscles and your sub-conscious memory will learn the lesson VERY well. Stop teaching the lesson.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

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Offline Xargos

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« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2007, 11:11:47 PM »
If you can shoot at least 50 round a month that would be good.  

Also I've noticed that some people don't wash their hands after shooting, please do not be one of them because you can get lead poisoning if you don't.  I hope you take a gun course in the near future just to be on the safe side because we all pick up bad habits if we don't.

I hope that didn't sound demeaning.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 11:19:00 PM by Xargos »
Jeffery R."Xargos" Ward

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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2007, 11:27:23 PM »
Halo, if you're going to keep your weapon unloaded, then drill this way:

Have someone make you a box (20-50) of dummy rounds (empty brass with a bullet seated, no powder, no primer). Take your dummy rounds, and color them RED with a magic marker, or with machinists layout dye. DO NOT paint them, as the paint will come off in your weapon. Unload your weapon and all three magazines. Remove the live ammunition from the room. Load all three magazines equally with the dummy rounds. Place the empty weapon on the table, with a magazine nearby. Pick up the weapon, pick up the magazine, insert it in the weapon, cycle the slide fully, and raise the weapon to the ready position. STOP. Relax. Release the magazine. Pull the slide back, empty the chamber, release the slide. Place the weapon and a magazine on the table. Repeat. Repeat.

Also, place one dummy round in each magazine. Place the weapon on the table, empty, and a magazine (with one dummy round loaded in it) nearby. Pick up the weapon, pick up the magazine, and make ready. STOP. Now, cycle the slide again. This will eject the dummy round, and the slide will stop in the open position. Now, release the magazine, pick up another, insert it in the weapon, and release the slide. Repeat.

When you are finished, unload all of the dummy rounds from the weapon and magazines. Remove it from the room. Bring the live rounds into the room, and load to the condition you prefer.

This is the proper method fro drilling without live rounds. It will teach your sub -conscious memory and your muscles the correct lessons, and you will not be as prone to screw up under stress.

Not drilling at all is safer than drilling incorrectly. At least you learn no lesson at all rather than learn the wrong lesson.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

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Offline Seagoon

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2007, 11:49:58 PM »
Hi Halo,

Quote
Originally posted by Halo
You never have trouble chambering a round in a semiauto?  Am I the village klutz?  :confused:


While it is possible you are, I definitely am. I have a BDA 380 and I frequently have trouble with the slide. All in all, I deeply regret not buying the Sig P232 instead. Some day I'm going to have to trade up.

So no, you aren't the only one with sore thumbs.

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Offline Viking

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« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2007, 11:57:53 PM »
Virgil you don’t need to have the dummy rounds custom made. Just buy some. Safer, and the dampening primers will reduce wear on the firing pin.

http://www.shootnhunt.com/catalog/JM/gun_accessories/dummy_rounds_snap_caps/index.html


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2007, 12:58:54 AM »
I reload, so I'd make my own, if I were of a mind to drill that way. I much prefer actually dummy rounds as they tend to give a better feel, and perform like the real thing (I did drill that way some, years ago, for department training). Modern firing pins and springs are difficult to damage or wear out. The old adage against dry firing dates back to leaf springs in Colt SAA revolvers and such, and doesn't really apply to modern metallurgy. It doesn't HURT to use snap caps and such, but you won't harm a good quality weapon with normal dry firing.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Xargos

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2007, 01:49:37 AM »
Quote
What is this? The third, or fourth time you've misspelled college when trying to insult me? Normally I don't care about typos, but the irony is just devastating.


What gives you the idea it was a typo or misspell?  :rofl
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Offline SteveBailey

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2007, 02:02:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Halo
(quote) Are you saying that the XD does lock open even if it has a loaded mag in it? (unquote)



Yet I still marvel that apparently some of you have never had this problem, so I have to wonder if my problem is me or the gun?  Probably me.  

 



Halo, don't feel bad about this. Most guys that own semi's own guns w/ a 1911 type mechanism.  The 1911's don't lock open w/ a mag in the weapon if you pull it all the way back, unless the mag is empty.  Your XD 45 has a different mechanism than most typical semi's.

That said, Virgil is dead on w/ his advice.  One twist I would add is: After you have become proficient w/ the loading drills Virgil mentioned, try it in the dark, get used to doing it completely by feel.  This may seem silly but it's a nice skill to have if you are going to keep your home defense weapon unloaded.

Offline wrag

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2007, 02:10:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Halo
Good thoughts, and I've stripped the XD and cleaned it.  Generally the XD seems to work fine.  The only shells that didn't feed were the first time I used each of the first two magazines.  But then one didn't feed right the other day.  

And then, as the pistol gets broken in, it's easier to yank the slide back too far and lock it open.  That requires jettisoning the magazine, pulling the slide back and letting it go so it closes, then reinserting the magazine and recocking the slide to load the first cartridge.


Well I've never fired or used a XD BUT................ IIRC..............

If you have a loaded magazine FULLY in place the slide should NOT lock when pulled all the way back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It should only lock when the mag is EMPTY!

Suggest something APPEARS to be NOT right with your firearm or your ammo??????????

Are you using standard 45 ammo in your firearm?

IIRC there is now a shorter 45 ammo available?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 02:15:46 AM by wrag »
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Offline Gunthr

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Chambering Semiauto First Shots
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2007, 08:21:33 AM »
Halo, research this problem on the net...  check stovepipes and failure to feed probs for that gun.  if you are going to keep it, better do tap and rack drills.  i wouldn't be comfortable at all with that.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2007, 08:51:06 AM »
I like revolvers but I also like my Kimber 45..  no matter what tho...  you need to be comfortable with your firearm.. revolver or semi auto.. it should be second nature.

Some things...  I heard in here... That a revolver will fail if you don't get the cyl latched all the way?   that is pretty odd..  How the hell do you do that?   I have never done that.  Or... the round is not fully seated?   How do you do that?  and... why are these things relevant?  you leave the gun fully loaded.

That the springs on semi autos "take a set"?   this is odd to me too... both wilson and chip mcCormack claim that their springs will NOT take a set.. this is a fairly safe bet since I have seen GI mags that were loaded with 7 rounds for 10 years work flawlessly..  

Have any of you ever had a failure of a mag that you could attribute to the springs "taking a set"?   I didn't think so..   laser may of read about it tho.

Not being able to keep mags loaded for a semi auto makes it one hell of a lot less useful weapon in my opinion... I have 5 mags loaded for the Kimber and the CZ and have never had a problem with em.   I will often just use one or two.. the others might sit loaded for years.

I don't understand the whole thing anyway... if you only have one handgun and it is important to you... why aren't you drilling with it in front of the tv in your spare time?  Getting so that you can do everything by feel?

If you can't get a round in the chamber then you should never have gotten the gun.   If you can't close the cyl on a revolver then you shouldn't own any gun.

I will admit that I find any levers short of a slide release and mag release on a semiauto to be stupid.  

lazs