CV tactics. running to close to enemy bases

[july865]

i have noticed that when manuevering the cv, they seem to be placing the group far too close to the enemy bases. what is the "rule of thumb" for cv placement off-shore an enemy base? 3-5 keypads? closer, farther?

[68Ripper]

Providing you got the shore batteries down, the ORD porked and your not by the PT spawn, then the closer the better so your LVT's can spawn close to the town. If your a knit then you need to keep it at least 10 keypads away because they never pork the ORD or kill the Shore batteries.

[whiteman]

closer the better, makes an easy target for the shore batteries

[july865]

would this not lead to an early demize of the CV? i thought that this was supposed to be of great value to the game?
IMO shore batteries are seldom taken down inadvance of the CV's arrival. so then, if you were to place the cv, where would you place it??

[Bruv119]

This issue was discussed in depth the other week.  If you do a search for Carriers etc.

In maps gone by there used to be a wonderful one with at least 6 Cv's per country.  This also had no Shore batteries (except ports, i think).  It was non stop action,  attacking, defending then jump onto the next ship if it got sunk.   I think this mentality has carried through....

The main objective is to be close enough to spawn LVT's with troops( if the base doesnt have m3 spawn)  Lynx will tell you the exact distance.

Only way of protecting CV is to disable ords from surrounding fields.  Establish a good CAP of the intended field with VH down and the town nicely shelled from the 8 inchers before hand.

Keeping cv's outside of the angle of shore batteries usually is a good thing but obviously parking it out front is far more FUN.

[Yknurd]

I think that only carrier based squads should be able to control the carrier.

Don't fly blue, no carrier for you!

[Chalenge]

Two hellcats per shore battery and you can take the fleet right in to most fields. The next hellcat up should kill the VH and then its vulch city! Dont forget CAP. Bish suck at getting and holding CAP around the CV. Even when warned there are buffs coming no one ups. No wonder the cv dies so fast.

[tedrbr]

Widewing addresses this at the netaces.org website.  Still probably the best write up on CV Operations available for the game, and you'll note that many of the recommendations are never followed in the game.....:

Link to Site
 

So here goes, my basic rules for effectively commanding a TG (add to them if you wish):

1) Always maintain an adequate distance buffer between the TG and the enemy base under attack. I like to keep the TG about 20k out to minimize the effectiveness of shore batteries, and provide time for fleet cap (defenders) to intercept enemy aircraft destined for the TG. Once the shore batteries are disabled, and the field effectively capped, the TG can be brought closer to reduce flight time. However, it is not necessary to get real close to spawn LVTs. At 15k, they spawn at the same position as they would if the fleet were just 5k out. Should the enemy base recover, having the fleet too close can get it sunk. So, keep it as distant as practical, remembering that these fights can be very fluid and the TG commander needs to be flexible to the needs of the attack and the pilots that are flying from the ship.

2) Keeping the CV alive and operational is the foremost goal of the TG commander. There are certainly circumstances that the commander cannot control or avoid, such as mass suicide Jabo attacks. All he can do is make sure that as many of the 5” gun positions are manned as is possible. Turning the fleet to avoid the Jabos is useless. So, don’t bother because it prevents takeoffs and landings, while making defensive gunnery difficult.

Being attacked by level bombers is another issue, here turning the fleet is essential to upsetting their bomb run. Likewise, the TG commander is responsible for providing those pilots who fly from the CV with a place they can rearm, refuel and retreat to should that be necessary. They are depending upon the TG commander not to make errors that leave them high and dry. On the other hand, the pilots need to realize that they have a responsibility to defend and protect the TG as well.

3) Use the map and radar effectively. Know where potential threats are at all times. Know where enemy reinforcements are likely to come from, and pay attention to the sea side, watching for low level air attacks or the appearance of an enemy fleet. Make note of enemy PT spawn points and avoid them.

4) When encountering an enemy fleet, call for gunners immediately. TG commanders should become proficient with the Cruiser’s 8” guns. In these fights, marksmanship is often the deciding factor. Concentrate on sinking the enemy Cruiser first, as this ship presents the greatest threat. Once the enemy Cruiser and CV are sunk, turn your TG away from the enemy to avoid the mob of PTs that will inevitably spawn. These PTs can then be picked off at leisure by the 5” gun batteries or fighters. Always position your TG so that the maximum number of guns can be brought to bear on the enemy TG. Always strive to steam your TG across the bow of the enemy, in the classic “crossing the T” manner. This minimizes the number of enemy guns, while maximizing your own. When the range drops below 17k try to have the port (left) side of your fleet towards the enemy. This allows all of the CV guns to be brought into play. Gunners in 5” gun mounts must divert fire from the enemy ships to attacking aircraft whenever they come within range. The primary ship killers are the 8” guns. Don’t berate your gunners if they prove to have poor marksmanship. This also has a learning curve. Eventually, they will develop the required accuracy. Give them an opportunity to do so. Educate gunners on how to use the map and W key to maximize their accuracy against shore targets. Keep a constant dialog running with gunners, sharing range information so that all guns can be effective. Encourage pilots to call shot fall, and listen to them when they recommend range corrections. Watch the text buffer.

5) Whenever possible, do not take a CV more than one sector from the nearest friendly airfield for a strike mission. TGs often require air cover beyond what they can provide themselves.

6) As the TG commander, you need to be with the TG at all times. It is best that you do not fly combat sorties, but remain with the ships. However, you can fly as part of the cap. I recommend flying an SBD, TBM or D3a, circling the fleet, flying in F3 mode. From here you can track the enemy attacks, observe torpedo threats and, when necessary, intercept low flying bombers and fighters. Just beware that friendly AI ack may shoot you down should you follow enemy aircraft into the defensive ack umbrella.

7) Do not allow friendly PTs to get between your guns and low flying enemy aircraft. Those PTs will detonate the proximity fuzes, effectively preventing the guns from killing the enemy. Ask PTs drivers to move away. Be polite, but if they don’t move, do whatever is required to get them moving on their way. Whether or not they realize it, they can put the TG in jeopardy. Explain why you need them to move. Most will understand if it is explained to them.

8) Avoid taking the TG on long cross-water excursions. This effectively takes the TG out of the battle for many hours (a typical example would be using the TG to strike at A21 on the Mindinao map. Use an under-dar mission for this, keep the TG near A22 to defend against the enemy TG and raids from A5.)

[NAVCAD]

The beauty of the CV group is that as long you don't up an aircraft or GV, you can wipe out a base and town with the guns from the ships.

That being said, as soon as you up a plane or LVT, the base starts to flash and the bad guys know you're there.  That's why it is imperative, unless your trying to sneak the base, to kill ORD and Shore Bats first.

As an accomplished ship gunner, nothing is more fun to me than to pick off a CV with the shore bat at close range.

Of course like someone already said (and as a knight I know) the knights are horrible about taking down ord or shore bats.  Then they complain that the CV is too close or that the CV is sunk.

The group needs to be at least 15K away inorder to spawn LVTs.  any further out and the LVT spawns next to the ship.

Personally I like to take the CV in close.  It makes it easier to adjust the incomming rounds from the 8" guns.

V/R

NAVCAD

[Donzo]

Originally posted by Yknurd
I think that only carrier based squads should be able to control the carrier.

Don't fly blue, no carrier for you!

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Yknurd
I think that only carrier based squads should be able to control the carrier.

Don't fly blue, no carrier for you!

What, Carrier based squads don't have any members in them with enough rank to take command and keep a CV Group under control?   Or just none of their members want to retain control of it while everyone else flies off to vulch?  

And still, rarely do you see a CAP over a CV while ongoing carrier operations are being conducted against a target.  CV's run straight up onto shore batteries.  Ord at target and nearby bases are left up.

[LYNX]

Originally posted by july865
i have noticed that when manuevering the cv, they seem to be placing the group far too close to the enemy bases. what is the "rule of thumb" for cv placement off-shore an enemy base? 3-5 keypads? closer, farther?

I could write 10,000 words as to best use AH Cv's but before Ive written 300 some guy would have upped a bloody useless TBM off the CV 1,5 hrs away from LVT launch area....thus giving the enemy a bloody good idea a CV is inb.  By the time Ive written 500 words some newbie will be escorting the CV in a PT or LVT just inside the enemy dar circle.... thus making their base flash like a pervert at a girls school.  By the time I'd have written 1,000 words a bunch of fighter jokers would be getting killed chasing cons in the ack.  At 1.500 words the first noe bombers would arrive and if i'm lucky to get to 2,000 words the 1st suicide medium alt b26 would sink the cv.

Here's some hints for ya

1)towns can actually be shelled from just beyond the Cv's dar circle
2) In max zoom you can usually see the town from 29,000 out in 8inch
3) LVT need to be within 1 key pad to launch...8,8 miles.
4) Shore batteries in max zoom can get hits from 25,000 out
5)Cv doesn't need to be floated along side the bloody field
6)Shore batteries can't always traverse enough to get aim
7) Some sets of SB are cross eyed i.e north fires to south and south fires to north.
8) LVT's can spawn dry if you know where to put the Cv.
9)PT spawn points can be deadly
10) Try an LVT to understand why the fleet doesn't have to be parked off the field.

In an ideal world no one would up off the Cv.  8 inch could shell town flat or near as dam it by the time the CV is in LVT range.  LVT could be allowed to spawn dry or very nearly then and only then should any fighters or jabo's up.  The Cv could be parked near the town or to one side of 1 shore battery out of gun sites.  It is easier to kill 1 SB than to work on 2 + the bloody PT spawn.  SB's regain every 15 min.  

Once you get air up priorities are town 100% flat, ords, vh, acks, dar. Each situation is different but if somone has bothered to launch a LVT it needs the down flat and vh dead.  If your going to leave the field operational for after capture then ack better be dealt with to ascertain a cap.

[Ack-Ack]

The other reason some take the CV fleet right off shore is that they can use the CV puffy acks to essentially "CAP" the base they are attacking and make it easier for the CV AAA manned gunners to vulch planes as they are taking off from the base under attack.


ack-ack

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The other reason some take the CV fleet right off shore is that they can use the CV puffy acks to essentially "CAP" the base they are attacking and make it easier for the CV AAA manned gunners to vulch planes as they are taking off from the base under attack.
 

Then the VH pops, the SB's pop, and suddenly you've got incoming rounds and 'torpedoes in the water'.

[Kweassa]

Abother big problem for the CV is that for some reason, people don't seem to grasp the concept of "retreat" when things go bad.