A bit pathetic...

[BBBB]

Originally posted by Simaril
While I can understand getting cranked up about something, I'm still amazed at how some people can show absolute, 100% lack of logic.


Hate to point his out, Spot, but this POPULAR VOTE has been structured about as carefully as possible to assure that the MAJORITY gets what it wants.


Last time I checked, any candidate with 10% of the vote is defeated in a landslide....

You misunderstood my post. I am all for the majorty vote. I think it is silly to just go ahead and add and aircraft into AHII without a vote. I am refering to the guys screaming for an EW plane. It is silly to add a plane that only 10 percent of the gamming public will really use. Give the ppl what they want. They have voted, it is down to the P39 and the B-25. Two planes that have been asked for more times than I care to count. In my book the B-25 has plenty of uses in the LW arenas. More so if we get the G or H models.


-Sp0t

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Hwkeye
I have to tell you Widewing the plane you describe above was not the plane I flew in Warbirds.

IIRC, Warbirds has the P-39D. It doesn't have nearly as much power as the P-39Q.

P-39D: 1,150 hp at 12,000 ft, 368 mph @ 12,000 feet. 309 mph at sea level. Climb to 15k in 5.7 minutes.

P-39Q: 1,420 hp at 9,700 ft, 385 mph @ 12,500 feet. 331 mph at sea level. Climb to 15k in 4.5 minutes. Note: Some sources quote 399 mph for the P-39N and P-39Q @ 9,700 feet.

The the P-39Q is far more capable than the April 1941 vintage P-39D. P-39Ns and Qs constituted 2/3rds of Airacobra production.

My regards,

Widewing

[blkmgc]

Originally posted by Widewing
IIRC, Warbirds has the P-39D. It doesn't have nearly as much power as the P-39Q.

And do you know for sure which model we'll be getting? maybe I missed that here amongst the radio noise.

[E25280]

Originally posted by tedrbr
Logic?

But the fact it's a popular vote, and the planes that have made it through the rounds, is what makes that argument not track.  Look at who flies what and where online in this game:

(Using kills + deaths combined by plane against total numbers to get a general idea of actual use in game, since spawn numbers are not available)
N1K2, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, La-7, SeaFire in March made up 26.8% of plane use in order of use.   Over 1/4th.
Add the the B-24J, Typhoon IB, F6F-5, P-38L, Bf 110G-2, Hurricane Mk IIC, Spitfire Mk VIII, Lancaster III, F4U-1D, and those 14 planes make up another for 52.1% (9 planes for another 25.3%)  of all planes used in March, out of 74 total aircraft.
37 (half) other aircraft make up 13.6% of the planes used in the game, with the Ar234 running dead last.

Over 90% of the online population can be found in the 2 Late War Arenas. The SEA, EW, MW, AvA, and TA combined only make up a fraction of the presence in ONE LW arena.

So, how does 90% of the population, usually flying the 14 planes listed, usher a EW, medium level bomber, less capable than the B-26, through the rounds?

Blah Blah Blah

Hmm . . . Top 5 "uber planes" are used only 27% of the time.

I think it is you who does not understand the logic.

A minority of the sorties are in "uber" planes.

Check the killstats of most players, and you will see a variety of aircraft.  They have favorites, but I know of very few that fly one plane exclusively.

If high-performance was the only thing the player base really wanted, the stats for the top five would be even higher.  So, if high-performance isn't the turn-on for the majority of players, why would they vote for another high-performance plane?

I'd say most of the voters know exactly what they are getting.

[Spongebob]

Actually, the truth in popularity lies somewhere in the middle of current opinions. The people voting for the P39 or B25 who previously voted for planes which were eliminated can't always be counted as fans of the final two. This is contrasted by the fact that the final two still made it to the last round, speaking to their general popularity.

What would've been nice to see was a single vote where everyone ranked the planes on the list from top to bottom with 10 points going to the top spot and 1 to the bottom. I'd bet the P-39 would have still won out (if indeed it does win at all), but it would be interesting to see what the rest of that list might have looked like.

This style of vote would have been better suited to HTC using the list to choose what to model next, after the P-39 (I hope), if indeed they wish to choose based on current voting for the next plane.

For example:
P-39
Ki 43
Yak 3
B-25
Pe 2
Brewster Buffallo
He 111
G.55
Me 410
A-26

[Hap]

Originally posted by Hwkeye
I was hoping for something more original.

Hawk,

What do you want to convey by "original?"

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by E25280
Hmm . . . 90% of the players fly 14 planes 50% of the time.

90%X50% = 45%.

Ergo, 55%, a sizable majority, choose NOT to fly the "uber" warplanes.

I think it is you who does not understand the logic.

A minority of the sorties are in "uber" planes.

Check the killstats of most players, and you will see a variety of aircraft.  They have favorites, but I know of very few that fly one plane exclusively.

If high-performance was the only thing the player base really wanted, the stats for the top five would be even higher.  So, if high-performance isn't the turn-on for the majority of players, why would they vote for another high-performance plane?

I'd say most of the voters know exactly what they are getting.

An easy, LW, score padding, target drone?

Okay, since HTC does not break down the stats by EW, MW, and the two LW arenas, the numbers would be skewed (take a statistics class) TOWARD the LW rides listed even more, which would go a long way in pushing those numbers the other way if considering WHERE the majority of those players actually fly (hint: Late War).  IE, EW ride numbers would be even worse if looking at only LW usage numbers.

I did not look at any player stats.  I pulled the Plane Model stats of all planes for the month of March, --- discarded vehicles, gunners (which I could not separate by bomber type), and chutes --- added the kills and deaths figures together (as not every pilot that lifts gets kill, and not every pilot ends up dead on a sortie,... and SPAWN numbers are not available), and compared those numbers against the total numbers of kills and deaths to get the best look at plane usage numbers (if not actual spawns) from the data available.  

The actual percentages will be off a little due to individual skills in planes, but the rankings should be about as accurate as can be had, unless you plug every kill stat from every player into a spreadsheet.  (Feel free to do so.  I suggest doing a 4 month sampling for accuracy.)


My argument comes down to how can the majority of online voters, with the plane usage trends they've displayed from the statistics pulled from the website, keep a plane in the running whose performance parameters, compared to similar aircraft in the game, will place it down in the lower 1/3rd, at best, as far as usage?

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

The reason most of the servers are empty is because the lack of planes to fly.
Also the fact there are TWO late war servers.
now i know 125% if one late war room got shut down,the others would fill up in no time.


and THEN you know what the biggest gripe would be?
LACK OF OLD PLANES!

Fact is you are all spoiled in flyin' 44-45 aircraft.
With two main server almost always packed.
Shows the majority of aces high fans are ubber ride lovin' skill-less hacks.
Land a p40b or such with OVER 4 kills then you can talk.

But what i have to ask,is do people play in the late war servers JUST because they hold the most people? "i mean,who wants to try and fly in a room with only a handfull of players"

HTC,shut down one of the later war servers.
Then force these %$& to fly older planes,open there eyes.

"Throws two cents"

[BBBB]

Yes..because you know what is best for us. You wan't to tell us what we should fly that is fine by me..next month you can pay for my AH. Then I will fly wherever you tell me. If HTC shut down one of the LW servers I would go fly in the AVA. Not the EW. Heres to you knowning the AH fan base so well..cheers!


-Sp0t

[tedrbr]

They pay their $15 a month to play a game.  Forcing them into EW or MW don't seem like the best way to keep customers.  They can't get into LW, they may just log back off.

That the majority of online players are geared toward flying der most uber is no surprise.   Seeing questions on the Help Channel every weekend, to quote:  "what fastest plane?"  "what best plane?"  "how i go fast?"  "what best gun?"  "how do i fly?"  "how come everyone faster than me?"  does not surprise me after years of online play in various games.

I also do not believe in the "if you model it, they will come" argument to EW populations.  Put all the Buffalos LaGG-1's, Polikarpov I-15's, and Swordfish you want into the arenas, I don't see them drawing many more players into the EW arena.  Part of the problem in the planes available, the other is the player numbers to interact with.  

I like the Mid-War plane set.  I don't fly there because so few people are ever there.

I'm all for getting rid of one LW arena though.  And the arena CAP.  And bring back more and larger maps to the rotation.

[Zanth]

While flying mostly a A6M2 with   22 kills*

I have been killed most this month by

Ostwind   3 times
Spitfire Mk IX   2 times
F4U-1A   2 times

This does not track with your theory of ubar-ness.  They aren't finding me (shrug)


*(I do have 9 kills in a tempest, but that was only two sorties last night.)

[Hap]

Originally posted by tedrbr Forcing them into EW or MW don't seem like the best way to keep customers.

Ted,

Neither did it to me.  I think, however, I am wrong.  Dollars drive business.  Other "nicer" factors exist and play a part of course.

HTC bulletin board doesn't = all HTC's customers.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by blkmgc
And do you know for sure which model we'll be getting? maybe I missed that here amongst the radio noise.

I'm fairly certain that the P-39Q will be modeled because it fits the MWA and LWAs, where the bulk of the players can be found. I'm also pretty confident that they would also add the P-39D at the same time as it fits the EWA and the MWA. There's little external difference (gun pods on the Q).

I would expect the Q in VVS colors and the D in USAAF colors. Of course, the skinners will add many more.

Note also that the Q was far and away the most common variant manufactured.

My regards,

Widewing

[Masherbrum]

P-39Q




P-39Q ammo



These were taken last year at the Kalamazoo AirZoo.

[Hwkeye]

Hap said....

"Hawk,

What do you want to convey by "original?"

That's a pretty good question Hap. I don't see either plane as being very interesting.  One of the things I found really nice about Aces High was the wider variation of planes available to fly than in WB or WBII.  I mean where can you go to fly an Arado or for that matter drive a Tiger Tank?

Both planes have roles that are already covered by a number of different planes in the inventory so I was looking for something that was still a bit out of the ordinary.  

You would be right if you were to conclude that I wasn't all that impressed with a couple of the planes on the list we started with. (The Buffalo would be a good example).  I thought the more obscure Japanese or Russian planes were more interesting than the two planes in the finals but I don't want to leave you - or anyone else - thinking that I am all upset about the wins and loses I was just hoping for something more 'original' (or maybe I should have used the word 'interesting').