P-39 & P-63 Stalls, Spins & Spin Recovery Procedure

[eskimo2]

My father-in-law was a Flexible Gunner School Pilot Instructor at Indian Springs which was part
of the Army Air Force Western Training Command.  He primarily flew AT-6s, P-39s, P-63s &
 RP-63s.  Anyway, he still has his P-63 pilot’s manual, which I was thumbing through and noted
 the text on Stalls, Spins & Spin Recovery Procedure.  Both the Aircobra and Kingcobra were
famous for unrecoverable spins.   The P-39 and P-63 are very similar aircraft in balance, layout,
appearance and flying characteristics.  Here’s the scanned page on Stalls, Spins & Spin Recovery
Procedure.  (I’ve washed out the page and saved it as a monochrome GIF to get the filesize down
to 53 KB, it’s really not this black and white.)






More about my father-in-law here.

[moot]

Why the limitation on inverted flying?

[straffo]

The engine will lack oil, it's a common limitation (and who want to fly inverted for so long ?)

[Wilbus]

Really, what did they expect other then bad stall and spin characteristics when they mounted the engine behind the cockpit?

Silly designers...

[TexInVa]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Really, what did they expect other then bad stall and spin characteristics when they mounted the engine behind the cockpit?

A big gun.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Really, what did they expect other then bad stall and spin characteristics when they mounted the engine behind the cockpit?

Silly designers...

To fly, all planes have their CG in the same spot, typically 1/3 of the cord from the leading edge of the wing.  The P-39 and P-63 were not tail heavy.  One difference in these planes was that gained a little bit of nimbleness in having more of their mass near the center of the plane.  Much in the same way a mid engine car is a bit more nimble.


Now, if you want to talk about silly designers, there’s always the flying barrel:

[Wilbus]

Atleast that's a real plane

[IronDog]

Thanx for  sharing.Makes one feel like they have stepped back in history for a brief moment.I had the chance to see a P63 fly several years ago.This P63 was nicely restored,and was once owned by an astronaut.I noticed the pilot didn't push the P63 as hard as he did the P51 he also flew,..."was Old Yeller by the way."Was really nice to see this special bird put thru it's paces.
IronDog

[Kweassa]

Now, if you want to talk about silly designers, there's always the flying barrel:

 But.. but..  the 'barrel' was a significant design trend for early jet planes, which manifested itself in many excellent evolutionary cases such as this particular Yankee barrel;




 ..and this Russkie barrel..




 ... which ofcourse, all had the common ancestry coming down from the father of all barrels, the Kraut barrel..

[eskimo2]

Yea, but they are not as barrel chested as the SAAB.  Here's the original design concept:

http://hem.passagen.se/burrabee/72scale/mili.html

[Kweassa]

arrrrgh... the dreaded "Red X" design concept!!

 

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by Kweassa
arrrrgh... the dreaded "Red X" design concept!!

 

OK, they won't let me hotlink.  Follow the new link, it's pretty funny.

[Wilbus]

Hehehe, that was kind of funy

Yup Kweassa, the ta 183 was the father of them all, however, I didn't dare say it as I'd be jumped by every yank on the forum (well almost)

Oh btw, thanks for the spin/stall chart, always nice to see something from the original manuals.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Wilbus


Yup Kweassa, the ta 183 was the father of them all, however, I didn't dare say it as I'd be jumped by every yank on the forum (well almost)

Oh btw, thanks for the spin/stall chart, always nice to see something from the original manuals.

Don't forget that design isnt done on a blank page. All those early designers started with the reality of a short fat jet engine.

And you expected the planes to look like what, exactly?

While German engineers were the first to cross many milestones, they didnt create the physics behind their designs. Much of it was simply engineering common sense, once you were given the parameters of what needed to be plugged in to the aircraft.





And any fair assessment of their engineering prowess needs to include the many outright silly sheets to leave their desks.

[moot]