P-39 & P-63 Stalls, Spins & Spin Recovery Procedure

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by moot

Now there's just no excuse for that tubby thing!

[Krusty]

Originally posted by eskimo2
The P-39 and P-63 are very similar aircraft in balance, layout,
appearance and flying characteristics.

Not really. The P-39 had a lot more problems. Later versions tried to lessen them by installing more v-stab surface area, and even by reducing the prop blades from 4 to 3 to help reduce the instability.

The P-63 took all of these considerations and redesigned the entire shape of the aircraft to help reduce the instability.

P-39s would fly somewhat worse than P-63s because of this.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by Krusty
Not really. The P-39 had a lot more problems. Later versions tried to lessen them by installing more v-stab surface area, and even by reducing the prop blades from 4 to 3 to help reduce the instability.

The P-63 took all of these considerations and redesigned the entire shape of the aircraft to help reduce the instability.

P-39s would fly somewhat worse than P-63s because of this.

Yea, I just asked him about this and he pretty much said that.  He said that they were instructed not to spin the P-63 and to absolutely never spin the P-39.  The Bell test pilots spun them and always recovered but apparently the Army didn’t think it was such a bright idea.

[Gianlupo]

Excuse me, gents, but on behalf of italian national pride, I claim the honour for my country of having been the first one to build fat, barrel airplanes!

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Wounder how it flew.

[Krusty]

It's got wings, doesn't it??


P.S. LYNCH THE ITALIANS!!!! They've built craft designed by Satan!

[Brooke]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Hehehe, that was kind of funy

Yup Kweassa, the ta 183 was the father of them all, however, I didn't dare say it as I'd be jumped by every yank on the forum (well almost)

Oh btw, thanks for the spin/stall chart, always nice to see something from the original manuals.

This reminds me of a great line in the film Ice Station Zebra, where Patrick McGoohan's character says, "The Russians put our camera made by our German scientists and your film made by your German scientists into their satellite made by their German scientists."

[TimRas]

Stall recover procedure for P-39Q. It seems more difficult than in P-63.




From the "Pre-flight Curriculum for the P-39":

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Brooke
This reminds me of a great line in the film Ice Station Zebra, where Patrick McGoohan's character says, "The Russians put our camera made by our German scientists and your film made by your German scientists into their satellite made by their German scientists."

I've seen the film but don't remember that line. So true though.

[Kweassa]

My guess is this barrel obsession clearly demonstrates a German ancestry.

 It's a beer thing.

[Swoop73]

Wilbus.....The plane ballances just fine. Where they put the engine has nothing to do with the CG. The engine was back there to cut down on frontal area and to make it easy to stuff in the mother of all cannon. It was an idea worth trying. Most WW2 fighters and most fighters by definition are designed with the CG as far aft as they think they can get away with because this gives the lightest stick forces. The price you pay is usually poor spin recovery....Depending on what you consider poor.

Some pilots loved the design...Chuck Yeager and most of the Russians....Others didn't.

Swoop73

[Widewing]

Originally posted by TimRas
Stall recover procedure for P-39Q. It seems more difficult than in P-63.

I don't think that there's much difference in the procedure. There is just a more explicit warning in the P-39 manual.

Many WWII fighters had nasty spin behavior, including the P-51 which frequently required 7,000 to 10,000 feet to recover.

Certainly, it won't be as difficult as trying to get the AH2 Mossy out of a flat spin.

By the way gents, the fastest way to get the Mossy out of a flat spin is to shut down the engines (not just pull power off to idle, but shut them off altogether).

I've been air spawning various aircraft at 30k to test spin recovery. When air spawned, the mossy immediately enters a flat spin (you cannot prevent it). The fastest way to recover is to not start the engines... She will nose over all by herself. If you do start the engines, you'll just have to shut them off.

My regards,

Widewing