Depleted Uranium...

[WhiteHawk]

According to the guy doing the interview, there are 3 kinds of uranium that come with the Uranium ore.  3% (?) u-234, 15% u-235, and the rest is u-238.  The u234 and u235 are fisionable and can be used as fuel and nukes, the u-238 is just as radioactive but is not fisionable.  Its half life is 2.5 billion years whcih means once its released it is there forever.  He claims that once the projectile hits its target or anything else, it vaporizes and is, in essence, a small dirty-bomb that pollutes its bit of earth for eternity.  He claims we used 300 tons of this in the first Iraq war and smaller portions during the serbian conflict and the second war.  I wont link to the site because they use horribly disfigured babies as a scare tactic without claiming that they are a direct result of DU munitions.  I am more concerned that our armies are being poisoned by this stuff and if anybody had any direct first hand knowledge of the stuff or if our troops are warned of any hazards from DU shells.  Or if anybody knows anybody who helps to manufacture the shells and do they wear the full nuke outfit or whatnot.

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by bozon
Quite a lot of elements are radio active. Saying that depleted uranium is dangerous just because it is uranium is ignorant.



 

Assuming it is safe without any investigation is not all that smart either.  Can you say that DU rounds are safe and back it up?  Tungsten rounds are just as effective but it is not a hazardous waste by-product and therefore much more expensive.  Companies who can sell thier waste instead of paying out the ying-yang to have somebody dispose of it safely have a large motive to downplay the dangers.  It is usually up to the citizen to bring this out in the open before anything is done about it.  Remember, a large number of US companies are controlled by foreign interests who really couldnt care less if our entire army is puking blood out their butts instead of winning wars.

[leitwolf]

Depleted uranium isnt bad because of it's radiation. Obviously "nooklear" has a higher shock value for people campaigning against DU than anything else, so they use that.

The problem with DU, however, is that it is a heavy metal which could (when ingested) lead to cancer, birth defects and so on.
Due to the way DU rounds shatter and burn up on target, they leave an area contamined with poisonous heavy metal which can be easily ingested without protection - that's the real problem.

[Maverick]

FWIW so do lead projectiles. Breathing in or ingesting any heavy metal or metal that will react and be absorbed in the body is very bad.

[Rino]

Originally posted by tedrbr
Iraq sites can often be contaminated by depleted uranium from Desert Storm and the Iraq War.

DU used in AP ammunition, as well as penetrating bombs (used against buildings and bunkers for example).  Saddam had a lot of NATO munitions from the Iraq-Iran war in those bunkers we blew up as well, some of which probably had DU.

American G.I.s told to stay out of burnt out Iraqi armor in Iraq, but either to get their glory pics taken, collect souvenirs, or (in my case) trying to salvage some armor or blister shields to use in up-armoring our own soft-sided vehicles for use in-country, soldiers get exposed to DU residue.

Also, many buildings were hit in Iraq with what were probably DU tiped bombs.  The Ministry of Information is one I can think of.  My Heavy Search and Rescue Team (one of many jobs) trained in bombed out buildings like these... as part of our mission was to enter bombed out structures to look for survivors, sensitive documents and equipment if necessary, if insurgents started to drop buildings around Baghdad.   Shoring, blocking, & bracing of compromised structures, work in confined spaces, patient packaging and extraction, and rope work.  

This put us in contact with DU residue as well.  Some units have reoccupied many of these bombed out shells, braced them, and turned them into working and living areas.  This also exposes soldiers to DU.

Never heard of any thorough surveys being done as the how wide spread DU residue exposure actually is in country.  Or of any testing of soldiers, living and working areas, or equipment for contamination to DU (among other hazards).

     A buddy of mine at work drove a wrecker for the army and was charged
with recovering Iraqi vehicles.  He said he was only told about the risk from
DU rounds after he was out of the service.  

     Fortunately he hasn't suffered any ill effects from his experiences.  He
did say that they were told not to bother with obviously destroyed vehicles,
but that sometimes it wasn't obvious from the outside.

     Dave was also in Bosnia, but only for a short time as they were
swapping out new vehicles from his replacement depot in Italy for UN
troops already in country.



     Using this vehicle he could recover even T-72s and BMPs...although
he was supposed to cut the "driveshaft", most times they just put them
in neutral and rolled out.

[GRUNHERZ]

DU is very dense, heavy and hard, its cheaper than tungsten (the other common material used in APFSDS rounds), is readily available and it has an interesting quality in that it somehow self sharpens by burning its surface away as it penetrates armor and does not deform like tungsten penetrator would.  

Its really great ammo and very powerful. For example the US still use a 44 caliber length 120mm gun and the DU ammo while the germans are now using a 55 caliber version of the same 120mm gun and their tungsten ammo doesnt have the AP performance of the US weapon.  

The amount of DU used in GW1 was microscopic compared to the imapct of Saddams oil fires.  Only US hating communits would balme DU for thye health effects afte GW1 while ignoring the obvious environmental disater that the toxic fires were.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Maverick
FWIW so do lead projectiles. Breathing in or ingesting any heavy metal or metal that will react and be absorbed in the body is very bad.

that's why indoor gun ranges have had to improve their ventilation systems.

[VOR]

Depleted Uranium is dangerous. We should switch to something non-toxic like lead.

[leitwolf]

you forgot right?

[BlkKnit]

Originally posted by dmf
Hmmm I've read the responses to my last post and I kinda think that depleted uranium would  still radioactive enough to kill wouldn't it?

Long term, maybe.

DU is / was used as balance weights in aircraft flight controls.  In the industry there is usually someone who has a small rivet bucking bar made of a discarded DU weight.  Its very hard and very heavy, making it perfect for tight space riveting. As hard as it is, I cant really see where there would be any "dust" from it when using it in this fashion, but there are the inherent hazards same as lead.

BTW, I dont have a DU bucking bar, but have used them.

[Hornet33]

On the whole DU thing I only have this to say. If countries don't want the US litering their country with DU rounds, don't screw with us. We use it because it works better than anything else on the planet for it's intended role. Why change to something less effective that might put our troops at risk? In war you have your people and everyone else and you don't worry about everyone else. The PC police are all over it because somehow they think wars should be fought more gently or something.

HELLO????? It's war, people die, and the object is to kill more of the bad guys first before they can kill your guys. But we have to find a way to fight without killing people? Non lethal weapons?? Who comes up with this stuff? Oh that's right....the bleeding heart liberals who wet their pants if something ends up on TV showing someone getting killed in a war.

Take a look at Iraq. Democrats wanted to start an investigation because Iraqi insurgents were dieing in large numbers from head shots by US Soilders. The Democrats thought that our boys were executing them. Well as it turns out, our boys are just really good shots, and when the only thing you can see is the guys head who's shooting at you, well you shoot him in the head. Makes sense right? Not to the bleeding heart gang it doesn't.

These are the same folks that are cutting funding, want tighter rules of engagement, and think all the worlds problems can be solved with a hug or by giving the bad guys what they want and that'll make them happy and they'll leave us alone. What a bunch of morons.

I say use DU as much as possible. Bring back napalm. Use cluster munitions. Use WP. Kill them and cause as much damage as possible. Turn those countries into a smoking, radioactive mess and maybe those nutjobs over there will get the hint that we aren't screwing around anymore.

[dmf]

I just don't want to live around any of that stuff, I have to think about my daughter, trust me if its dangerous, she'll find it.

[eskimo2]

Hornet33,

Thank you for your service.  

I hope that your health improves, regardless of what is causing your problems.  I especially hope your kids escape your health problems.

[Hawco]

We were just told not to go near any Iraqi tanks etc that had been taken out, had some sort of idea that it was due to DU rounds but I'm glad I listened, Couple of boys went poking around, dunno if they are still ok or not though.
You should have seen the road going from Kuwait up to Basra, mile after mile of hulks, everything from mercedes limos to Tanks to APC's etc, incredible to think that so much damage could have been done in so short of a time, I would have posted some pics to show you boys, but the ex wife threw all my pic albums out in the trash.

[Hawco]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
I'm with the "oil crowd" on this one.  While I was way too young to serve then I remember seeing pictures of all that burning oil and US troops covered in it from head to toe.  Oil in of itself is a carcinogen (SP). and likely to cause more damage to somone that inhaling DU residue (not saying that the residue isn't harmfull)

I worked with a guy that was there and he would sometimes just drift off for an hour or two.  I just let him go where ever his mind went and would gently nudge him when our shift was over.  It was pretty sureal.

There was also some other Forces there too, namely the British forces;)