b25..what is the point

[Kweassa]

Did you even read about Toad's dad in this thread?

 What about those who read about eskimo's dad-in-law?

 Is his dad less important than Toad's dad?

 Me, I've always wanted to see a VVS mid-war plane in AH, and thought a P-39N with Pokryshkin's markings would be a great addition. Suddenly, a bunch of people comes along and starts chanting "dad", and now I've become a bad person who won't give up what he wants for an elderly, nostalgic gentleman.
 
 Frankly, while the sympathetic motivations are understandable, emotional pleas should never have been involved in the first place. For one thing, it makes people who don't want the B-25 seem like an apathetic moron, when all they are doing is just wanting the plane they'd love to fly.

 As if you romantics can't make this voting doohickey any less uglier than it already has become.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Kweassa
What about those who read about eskimo's dad-in-law?

 Is his dad less important than Toad's dad?

 Me, I've always wanted to see a VVS mid-war plane in AH, and thought a P-39N with Pokryshkin's markings would be a great addition. Suddenly, a bunch of people comes along and starts chanting "dad", and now I've become a bad person who won't give up what he wants for an elderly, nostalgic gentleman.
 
 Frankly, while the sympathetic motivations are understandable, emotional pleas should never have been involved in the first place. For one thing, it makes people who don't want the B-25 seem like an apathetic moron, when all they are doing is just wanting the plane they'd love to fly.

 As if you romantics can't make this voting doohickey any less uglier than it already has become.

Kweassa,  I'm just pointing out the reasons for voting for an AC.
I am not ignoring Eskimo's father-in-law. This is a B25 thread.(See other thread where I have had brief discussion with Eskimo.)

People trying to sway others to not voting for the B-25 because of a poorly made movie????  Pathetic, the b25's service record speaks for it .

The waa waa factor because their pet plane lost is truly amusing.

While I'm sure furby did the whole Ben Affleck thing trying to get a rise out of people. People like Ted who are now using it in an attempt to sway the vote are bitter losers.

I will be happy if either AC gets in.

Bronk

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Bronk
This is a B25 thread.

Starting post and topic leaves the distinct impression of being an anti-B25 thread.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Husky01
Two words.

DOOLITTLE RAID!

One word... NO

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Kweassa
What about those who read about eskimo's dad-in-law?

 Is his dad less important than Toad's dad?

 Me, I've always wanted to see a VVS mid-war plane in AH, and thought a P-39N with Pokryshkin's markings would be a great addition. Suddenly, a bunch of people comes along and starts chanting "dad", and now I've become a bad person who won't give up what he wants for an elderly, nostalgic gentleman.
 
 Frankly, while the sympathetic motivations are understandable, emotional pleas should never have been involved in the first place. For one thing, it makes people who don't want the B-25 seem like an apathetic moron, when all they are doing is just wanting the plane they'd love to fly.

 As if you romantics can't make this voting doohickey any less uglier than it already has become.

Extremely well said.

[Toad]

It matters not a whit what plane makes it in the game. If the P-39 makes it in, that's fine. If it can somehow be skinned in a way that honors Eskimo's father-in-law, I think that would be a very fine thing.

Let me reiterate what I really think about this whole voting process and I said this early on when (I think) all the planes were still in the running:

Toad:

What ever plane they choose won't change the game. Most of the choices getting touted will be primarily hangar queens in the MA. They might see some use in special events but the vast majority of the player base doesn't participate.

So the what the game needs approach falls on deaf ears with me. Another airplane is not what the game needs. It doesn't matter what plane or how many planes are added.

What the game needs is people who like to fight in airplanes against other airplanes; sadly, that isn't going to happen.

So, they're just adding planes; might as well be one that I see a good reason to add, even if that reason has nothing to do with the game.

I still see it that way. If the B-25 makes it in, I will indeed commission a skinner to do a Quitch version and have it submitted. That would be a gesture from me to honor my father. Whether anyone else thinks that is "right" or "just" or "fair" is pretty immaterial to me.

I salute Eskimo's dad and ALL the others who served in whatever aircraft. But I think it is understandable that I would like to see Quitch in the game and preferably while my father is alive to see it fly the virtual skies.

Vote how you like; I did.

[storch]

well said toad

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Murdr
Starting post and topic leaves the distinct impression of being an anti-B25 thread.

Agreed, its still a b25 thread.


Bronk

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

What a sad bunch of petty little juvenile sniveling whining crybabies.

If you've ever wondered why the people here who know REAL World War II pilots NEVER invite them here, this crap is EXACTLY why.

[SlapShot]

I will indeed commission a skinner to do a Quitch version and have it submitted.

Toad ... I would be knocking on Fester's door if the B-25 makes it.

You gotta see the new P-51 skin he just got done with ... absolutely incredible.

... on the B-25

[Kweassa]

But I think it is understandable that I would like to see Quitch in the game and preferably while my father is alive to see it fly the virtual skies.

 
 This isn't about you, or your father Toad. Your motivations I find plenty understandable, and I myself would have probably leaned in favor of it, were it not I had my own favorite choice. It's about people going down the Crusade path chanting "in the name of (Toad's) Father...".

 It's completely reasonable for people to bring up reasons why a certain plane might be better than the other - they've all got a certain point to make as to why one advocates a certain choice. Heck, even the obnoxious G.55 threads had some good reasons to think about.

 That was until some people started the Crusade(I am accusing the others, not Toad), and started using "Toad's dad" as the answe to every thing - a challenge of ethics. When someone brings up why he likes this or that plane, the idiots come in swarming and chanting, "what about Toad's dad?"

 Right.

 How could we ever resist, or even dare to have a different opinion, or bring up reasons to object the B-25, when someone starts bringing up the noble cause of "honoring a real war-time pilot".

 That's why I just had to comment, "what about eskimo's dad?"

 So, to all those honor-loving folk out there, eskimo also wants to honor his father in law, who became one of his best friends of life, and also was a war-time veteran, whom eskimo wants to honor by voting the P-39.

 If your motivations are really geared towards honoring a real hero, then why the B-25? Why not P-39? What compelled you to choose one father over the other father?

 Yes, it's a rude and cruel question, and I am sorry to both Toad and eskimo for it, but it has to be asked. Not because I acutally want an answer, but merely to illustrate my point that when people start getting personal over these sort of things, things tend to get ugly.

 And really, really, ugly, that is.

 
 Now, the deed is done, and people already went down that path. What will happen if the B-25 does not make it? Someone is going to get really upset about it, and even if Toad doesn't comment anything about it, someone else is bound to start knitpicking how fighter jocks ruined things, how they can't even honor a real veteran, and blah blah blah. The same thing's gonna happen if the P-39 doesn't make it, and those involved in this personal emotional quest is bound to be upset.

 In the end, by going down this path, people's feelings are gonna get hurt no matter which plane wins.

 Thanks, ye romantics, you've made this vote a truly wonderful and enjoyable experience.

[Toad]

Actually, it's about people expressing their preference for the next plane addition by voting for it.

Frankly, I think your high dudgeon over what constitutes a legitimate reason for voting is also immaterial and pointless.

People will vote for whatever they want for reasons they personally find of value or logical or interesting or whatever.

If they come here and share them with others, that's their business as well.

You see it as some sort of Crusade. Your perception is your perception and you are entitled to it.

To me it is just people voting for what they desire to see for whatever reason.

It's really no different than a Finn wanting to see a Brewster in the game with the possible exception that a specific individual is mentioned in the case of the B-25 and the P-39.

[Kweassa]

It's really no different than a Finn wanting to see a Brewster in the game with the possible exception that a specific individual is mentioned in the case of the B-25 and the P-39.

 In the end it is the existence of the 'specific individual' that makes the difference between the Brewster and the B-25, Toad.

 I wouldn't have gone so far with this crappy subject, if only some people haven't started using your father's honor as the reason to shut someone up. Like you said, everybody's got their reasons.

 Unfortunately, some people believe they've found a "holier-than-thou" reason than most others, and started using it to make people who don't want the B-25 (for down-to-earth reasons) look like a disloyal, unhonorable, selfish person who only wants his own fun, instead of honoring a hero.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Kweassa
In the end it is the existence of the 'specific individual' that makes the difference between the Brewster and the B-25, Toad.

 I wouldn't have gone so far with this crappy subject, if only some people haven't started using your father's honor as the reason to shut someone up. Like you said, everybody's got their reasons.

 Unfortunately, some people believe they've found a "holier-than-thou" reason than most others, and started using it to make people who don't want the B-25 (for down-to-earth reasons) look like a disloyal, unhonorable, selfish person who only wants his own fun, instead of honoring a hero.

I hope your not reading that much into my post.
If you are, you're way off.

I was replying to this.

Originally posted by Anyone
and thats the ONLY reason the B25s gona win.... all the hype around Pearl harbour etc.

everyone whos voted B25 wants a Doolittle raider.....nothing else.

If I voted for the B-25 I would have considered much more than the above.
Theaters served in and Russian usage also plays a part.
Toad's father is one part of it.

Same for the P-39
Almost identical theater usage and allied usage.
Not to mention Eskimo's father-in-law.

Either one of these AC fills more holes than the other AC that were up to the vote. I'm glad it made it down to these two.

Bronk

[Toad]

Originally posted by Kweassa
In the end it is the existence of the 'specific individual' that makes the difference between the Brewster and the B-25, Toad.

[/b]

Hardly; a reason is just a reason, nothing more, nothing less. There are no reasons to put a plane in a game that are any more or any less noble or logical or important or justifiable than any other reason. After all, it's just a minor factor in a minor little game played by a very small minority of the people on this earth.

I wouldn't have gone so far with this crappy subject, if only some people haven't started using your father's honor as the reason to shut someone up.

What puzzles me is why anyone would try to "shut someone up" in a discussion about which plane to add. I believe I said ealier, vote for what you want; I did.

Why shouldn't each player vote for what he wants?

Why does there have to be a "right" choice?

IMO, the only right choice is the one a particular individual makes. Anyone else's opinion on what I or you or Eskimo or any other player votes for is meaningless. We all vote for what we want for want ever reasons we find important to us.

Unfortunately, some people believe they've found a "holier-than-thou" reason than most others, and started using it to make people who don't want the B-25 (for down-to-earth reasons) look like a disloyal, unhonorable, selfish person who only wants his own fun, instead of honoring a hero.

How people announce their individual preferences and their individual reasoning is another one of their choices.

Again, I certainly don't see it as a "Crusade"; I see it as a personal opportunity and a personal vote.

I haven't really read through this thread in search of holier-than-thou attitudes though. The entire BBS is one big argument about inconsequential things though, so I don't see why this thread would be any different.