Majority of Doctors Believe Religion Is Good for Your Health

[Ripsnort]

So this study must not include the Muslims that are brain-washed by terrorist orgs, eh? I mean, the kids you know...they blow up so quickly!

Hoping to hear from Seagoon. Do you agree with these physicians findings?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070409164931.htm
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/religion/334593,CST-NWS-god10.article

[68valu]

Majority of Doctors Believe Religion Is Good for Your Health


More people have been killed "in the name of God" than for any other reason. Most wars can be attributed back to a religious dispute.

[Chairboy]

I'm pretty sure that the brain has a biiiig role in health.  People who are happy tend to be healthier than folks who are depressed, and Religion is an easy way for lots of folks to be happy, so the results sound pretty believable.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by 68valu
...
More people have been killed "in the name of God" than for any other reason. Most wars can be attributed back to a religious dispute.

Unmitigated nonsense.

ww2 -- the most deadly war in history, without doubt -- was purely political, and most of the deaths occurred at the hands , of atheist dictators. The 2nd deadliest, ww1, was fought over territory and national pride without reference to religion.

Don't spew propaganda, its not becoming.

[68valu]

Originally posted by Simaril
[

ww2 -- the most deadly war in history, without doubt -- was purely political, and most of the deaths occurred at the hands , of atheist dictators. The 2nd deadliest, ww1, was fought over territory and national pride without reference to religion.

_____________________________ ____________________________

The holocoust was political!!!!    

All of the people who died during the crusades were political!!!!

The romans slaughtering the christians were political!!!!!!

Look farther back in history than the 20th century

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by 68valu

Originally posted by Simaril
[

ww2 -- the most deadly war in history, without doubt -- was purely political, and most of the deaths occurred at the hands , of atheist dictators. The 2nd deadliest, ww1, was fought over territory and national pride without reference to religion.

_____________________________ ____________________________

The holocoust was political!!!!    

All of the people who died during the crusades were political!!!!

The romans slaughtering the christians were political!!!!!!

Look farther back in history than the 20th century [/B]

Actually you'll find most of them were, but religion was used as the motivator. But that doesn't make religion any less of a culprit. In most cases religion is simply a method of control, the closer to the heart you get the less you find true religious beliefs and other 'motivators'.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by 68valu

Originally posted by Simaril

The holocoust was political!!!!    

All of the people who died during the crusades were political!!!!

The romans slaughtering the christians were political!!!!!!

Look farther back in history than the 20th century [/B]

You might want to read, and think, a little more about history.

You claimed that more were killed due to religion than anything else is patently false, absolutely untrue, and is the product of anti-religious bias in modern culture.

The key is the "MORE" part, for the same reason that your advice to look past the 20th century is illogical -- because MORE PEOPLE HAVE LIVED AND DIED IN THE 20th CENTURY THAN IN ALL PREVIOUS HUMAN HISTORY -- COMBINED. For example, entire wars were fought with armies in the Crusades were that were smaller than a single WW2 DIVISION.


Now specifically:

1. the holocaust WAS political. Hitler acted based on RACIAL antisemitism, which was why he talked about the "master race" It is also why there was no question of faith, or of belief in Judaism. If you had a few drops of Jewish blood, you were taken. If you were an atheistic Jew, you were sent to the concentration camps -- so the issue was clearly not about religion at all.

2. The Crusades were as much political as religious. The rulers of Europe used religious motivators so they could achieve political goals, including the establishment of the kingdom of Jerusalem. The professional armies involved were in the 20,000- 40,000 range -- equal to a couple WW2 divisions. Civilian casualties were horrendous, but were as much due to sanitation, displacement and disease as they were to atrocities.


Atrocities happened, but those atrocities were in direct disobedience to what the religions involved TAUGHT.

That means something important -- after all, the Kansas City Bombing was done "in the name of American democracy" by some right wing nut jobs. Does that mean the bombing was representative of American culture? Of course not! So why do anti-religionists fall upon the Crusades to "prove" that Christianity is murderous?

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Chairboy
I'm pretty sure that the brain has a biiiig role in health.  People who are happy tend to be healthier than folks who are depressed, and Religion is an easy way for lots of folks to be happy, so the results sound pretty believable.

Right on with the analysis.

First, what doctors believe is irrelevant to what's actually true. For a long time, doctors believed that draining blood was good for you -- need I say more? That factor alone makes the survey approach essentially meaningless from a scientific standpoint.

Second, there is enormous evidence that triggering the stress systems is overall bad for health. Adrenaline is great stuff when you're running from a predator; otherwise, its pretty evil stuff. It increases strain on organ systems, and worsens survival from just about everything -- but especially from the FAR AND AWAY most common killers in western culture, vascular disease of the heart and brain.

Third, research is being done into some very "soft" areas -- that are very hard to measure. That makes for difficult study design, and problems with quality of research do not make it into the sound bites. In general, the best information comes from studies that look at broad conclusions like "people who call themselves religious (or go to services at least twice a month, or some other measureable stand in for the internal spiritual life) live an average of X years longer than those who are not religious."

Studies that look at divine intervention more directly -- for example, having spiritual people pray for specific ICU patients, with neither the doctors or the patients knowing who was being prayed for and who wasn't -- find much smaller effect, or no measurable effect at all.





Most importantly these scientific approaches to faith suffer from serious theological problems, because they have to assume that the human action controls the outcome. In essence, they have to assume that God becomes a vending machine, and that He is bound to do what we ask Him to do even if its against his better judgement (not to mention his omniscience regarding unanticipated consequences, and the motives triggering the prayer.)

And as I remind myself in my own spiritual walk, in that relationship only one of us is God -- and it's not me!!

[vorticon]

Originally posted by 68valu
Majority of Doctors Believe Religion Is Good for Your Health


More people have been killed "in the name of God" than for any other reason. Most wars can be attributed back to a religious dispute.

and everything larger than a rabbit killed by a human was done so with the aid of scientific innovations.

[lasersailor184]

You guys might want to analyze what religion really is, before you discount it for being at the root of all problems.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Simaril
Atrocities happened, but those atrocities were in direct disobedience to what the religions involved TAUGHT.

...  So why do anti-religionists fall upon the Crusades to "prove" that Christianity is murderous?

And here we have the classic religious fallback. If they did something bad then they obviously weren't real christians right simaril.

As for the crusades, we need not go back that far. Look at the recent serb/bosnian conflicts. A lot of muslims were executed by christians there. Strange thing is where does that conflict have its roots

FWIW, I'm not anti-religion. But I do find *general* christianity quite annoying. You are a perfect example simaril, you try to be persecuted and cop out of anything bad your religion is associated with all in one clean sweep. Just like any religion christianity has its good and bad, but it seems to be a religion bent on sweeping that bad under the rug.

[moot]

Religion is just an idea.

[Seagoon]

Hi Rip,

Here I was about to turn in after *finally* getting my revised bibliography done, when I thought to myself I should check the Hitech Board and see what plane won the contest (can't believe we have yet another US bomber rolling out when we only have *one* of the main bombers of the Axis nations - ah well, I guess we really needed something that could mount an airborne 75mm - but I digress)

Originally posted by Ripsnort
So this study must not include the Muslims that are brain-washed by terrorist orgs, eh? I mean, the kids you know...they blow up so quickly!

Hoping to hear from Seagoon. Do you agree with these physicians findings?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070409164931.htm
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/religion/334593,CST-NWS-god10.article

Generally speaking, I would agree with the studies. I guess I have two different lines of thought on this subject.

The first is purely pragmatic. Studies have shown that married men live up to 10 years longer than unmarried men. In trying to explain this statistic Linda Waite of the U of C's Population Research Center pointed out that marriage tends to force men to "adopt less risky behavior and more healthy lifestyles." In other words marriage and its attendant responsibilities encourages behaviors that cause men (and women) to live longer and provides disincentives for behaviors that can kill you.

In the same way, most religions (predictably, I'm going to leave Islam out of the mix because of its singularity - besides this was a US survey and very few of these doctors and their patients would be Muslims) encourage behavior that tends to promote a longer and healthier lifestyle. For instance, most forms of Christianity promote marriage (which also fosters longer life) and discourage sexual promiscuity (thus lowering the rate of STDs, etc.), drunkeness, brawling, addiction, suicide, etc.

Studies have also shown that people with a strong belief in God tend to be less succeptible to depression, and in essence give people more of reason to wake up in the morning and continue  on with their lives. Consistent Materialists are more prone to fall off into functional, if not philosophical, nihilism and its attendant despair, and despair doesn't tend to foster longer lives.

The Second line of thought is the divine intervention angle, although that is much harder to quantify and admittedly no amount of evidence here is going to be sufficient for a materialist who fervently believes in a closed universe. Let me just give you the most recent "for instance" in this category that I've personally experienced.

Our congregation has been praying for a infant by the name of Jacob who was born prematurely at 24 weeks. This child has been struggling for life since birth and a little over two weeks ago it seemed like he was going to lose that particular struggle. His prognosis got grimmer and grimmer and he became more dependent upon the machines to keep him alive, until one day when his parents were hurriedly ushered in and informed that one of his lungs had collapsed, that there was no more that the doctors could do, and that he only had at most a few more hours to live. The doctors told his mother that at the end they would remove him from the life support equipment and allow her to hold him as he died. His parents who are evangelicals never stopped praying for him and his father sent out an emergency call for prayer support. I remember specifically praying that morning along these lines:

"Lord Jesus during your earthly ministry you healed the sick and raised the dead, and made plain that you are indeed Immanuel - God with Us - and I know that you are still the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. You have promised never to leave us nor forsake us, and I know that you are still with your people, and working out your will in their lives. I beg you then to  intervene miraculously to save the life of this little child of yours, and ask that you would receive all the glory for his healing, that it might be abundantly clear that this was the almighty power of God and not the feeble and finite efforts of men."

Later that day, Jacob was disconnected from life support and given to his mother, his vital signs bottomed out and then... began climbing until they stabilized. His collapsed lung reinflated (sorry I'm not sure what the correct medical term is here) and he began to thrive. Their doctor, who was not particularly religious, stated this is miraculous, we aren't doing anything. And a social worker commented don't ever let anyone tell you that wasn't God at work.

Since then baby Jacob has continued to do well, is putting on weight, and will be ready to come home (god willing) in a few weeks.

I'm well aware that the crass materialist wouldn't accept this and would say something along the lines of, "ah yeah, well that was simply a coincidence of material factors we aren't yet able to accurately explain, and when we have factors beyond our ability to explain we superstitiously call it 'a miracle', when in fact its all just matter and the laws of the universe operating as they always have not some magical mumbo-jumbo." To such a darkened mind, no miracles are possible, because matter is all there is and God doesn't exist, so no actual miracle will ever prove anything to them. But I'm happy to report that in that instance on that day, in one hospital and many, many, homes God was given all the glory. Both of my prayers were answered that day.

I've been blessed to see that kind of thing happen on several occasions, and hope that as long as the Lord allows me to stay, to see it happen again.

- SEAGOON

[Elfie]

And here we have the classic religious fallback. If they did something bad then they obviously weren't real christians right simaril.

That's not necessarily true. As a Christian I am taught certain things from the Bible. Things like how to treat my neighbor, not to steal, no lying etc. etc. Does that mean that I am always successful in following every guideline the Bible lays out for me? Of course not. I am human, just like you, and each and every one of us fails at times.

I think what Simaril was getting at was that you can't blame Christianity as a whole for the failings of some who didn't follow the teachings of Christ. In this particular case, some of the Crusaders.

As for the crusades, we need not go back that far. Look at the recent serb/bosnian conflicts. A lot of muslims were executed by christians there.

That sword cut both ways did it not?

In no way am I excusing Christians for executing their neighbors in those conflicts. Just pointing out that if you are bringing up one side of that mess you should probably bring up the other side as well.

I'm not saying that those Bosnian Christians were *bad* or *good* Christians. They have obviously violated some of the Bible's teachings. The Bible also teaches that it is not my place to judge them for their actions, but God's place. He will Judge them for their actions on Judgement Day.

[Nilsen]

I would not be suprised if religion has positive health effects.

Religion = hope for those who cant help themselves. Its a straw they can hold on to when they have some sort of problem they wont/cant deal with in real life.  It can also be a substitute for other addictions like drugs or alcohol.