Author Topic: Bomber escort  (Read 446 times)

Offline BaldEagl

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Bomber escort
« on: April 10, 2007, 10:05:49 AM »
I ran into one of the worst examples of bomber escort I've seen last night and thought I'd post here as a topic as I haven't seen it discussed in a while.  I'll first lay out the scenario and actions of last night then discuss what was wrong, and what should have been done by the escorting pilot.

I was flying a FW190-F8 at about 21K, having run into several sets of bombers on an earlier flight in a BF109-K4.  I spotted a dot ahead and below and headed toward it.  As I approached I noticed there were two dots which turned out to be a set of Lancasters and a P-51 at ~18K.  The P-51 was trailing the Lancs at co-alt ~1K off their 6.

As I drew into icon range I nosed down and hit WEP.  When the P-51 noticed me coming he reversed and began a slight climb to meet me.  I blew by as he reversed again to take chase.  I took out the right drone and extended in a slow turning climb to the right, the P-51 in tow 3K back and losing ground.

The turning climb extension put me back behind the Lancs 3/9 line and, once there I heaved the nose around for a second pass.  The P-51 was coming right at me closing fast.  I blew stright by as he began to reverse and took out the lead bomber.

On the second pass the buff pilot hit my oil line and, with the P-51 back in tow, I decided to take the kills home before I was out of oil.

I began a WEP on dive for home with the P-51 tow all the way.  He eventually died in the field ack trying to vulch me (and I did get the kill) but thats another story.

So here's what I think he did wrong and what he should have done:

1.  He was defending a 1K space between himself and the Lancs, well within an enemy guns solution.  

Never defend a bomber from his close 6 co-alt.  Your job as an escort is to eliminate threats before they get into guns range on the bombers.  This cannot be done from a position within guns range.  

There will be some argument on this but my opinion is that the best place from which to defend is the bombers high 6.  At least 3-5K above them and ~3K behind them.  This allows you to dive onto an enemy's 6 before they reach guns range.  Even at that, timing is everything.

Others will argue that the high 12 is a better position but this is more an offensive than defensive position, better suited to clearing the skies ahead of the bombers than actually defending them.

2. From his position on the first pass, this poor guy tried to reverse twice; once to come meet me and again to take chase then had to reverse again to take chase as I began my second pass.

Avoid reversing.  Most buff hunters will come in from an altitude advantage with WEP on.  This is why I prefer a high 6 escort position.  If you have to reverse you give up too much E to stay with the attacker.  Had the P-51 been in this position initially I may have decided to engage the P-51 first or simply gone on to look for another target.  Either way the bombers would have been safe.

After blowing it on my first pass he should have taken position above and behind the bombers rather than trying to chase an extending attacker.  This ultimately forced another reverse and another lost bomber.

3.  The P-51 pilot's bruised ego and/or lust for a kill left his lone remaining bomber totally alone in enemy territory when i decided to fly home.

Do not engage enemy fighters who aren't a threat.  Anytime you are engaged the bombers are on their own.  You're job is to eliminate the threat to the bombers as quickly as possible and then move back into a protective position.  Eliminating the threat doesn't mean you have to kill the attacker, just drive him away.  Even an attacker who is extending away ahead of the bombers is better dealt with from the high 6 defensive position as he will have to reverse at least once, and probably twice to gain a guns solution leaving you with the E advantage.

I'm sure I've missed a few points here and others will chime in to fill the gaps but i thought this might be particularily usefull to the newer players.

to all the future escorts out there.
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Offline 4deck

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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2007, 10:46:57 AM »
I agree with everything stated in this post. As a matter of fact every one of my missions I request that fighters, stay 3-5k above the bombers. Now as far as the 6-12 position. I really dont care. Here i leave to the pilots skill to decide where they may best be effective. I also dont want any of the escortd to engage NMY not at co-alt of the bomber. What I mean here about co-alt is anything within 4k of the bombers alt. Ofcourse Higher alt, alwas. Also the escorts should be prepared to get the bombers to target and at least get the first sortie off before they cut loose. I usually really dont care one way or the other about return. Its nice, but in al ( fun ) Id rather shoot NMY planes down first and take my chances as far as the return trip is concerned. I'd rather shoot down 3-4 fighters and get shot down then drop and rtb. But thats my personnal preference. This style of fighting is only for the MA, not the SEA events, where RTB is part of the mission at hand.

Either way very nice tactic write up, and hopefully more escorts will understand their role. Ive been lucky enough to work with alot of fellows who take the flight lead, and do very well.

Cheers:aok
Forgot who said this while trying to take a base, but the quote goes like this. "I cant help you with ack, Im not in attack mode" This is with only 2 ack up in the town while troops were there, waiting. The rest of the town was down.

Offline Hap

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Bomber escort
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2007, 11:41:16 AM »
Bald,

Well said.

hap

Offline Gumbeau

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Bomber escort
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2007, 09:24:43 PM »
Actually the job of escort is to prevent the second pass from happening.

Only a forward sweep outside of visual range can effectively prevent the first pass.

Escort within visual range can disrupt the first pass but ultimately the job of escort within visual range of the bombers must prevent the second pass.

I've only been in AH 6 months but I havent seen a proper bomber formation or escort yet.

The bombers are scattered all over the sky and the 'escort' doesn't have a clue  who or how to protect them.

But it generally isnt any better in other games so .....


no worries :)

Offline Stoney74

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Bomber escort
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 12:21:16 AM »
Bald, I'll agree with you about high 12 being a bad position, but I'll respectfully disagree on the high 6 as the best place for the escort.  If the enemy comes in with E, you're still in a tail chase because you're starting out from a slower speed as a result of maintaining position on the bombers.  I contend that if you're a single escort, the best position is directly overhead with a healthy altitude advantage, say 4,000 feet or more.  Then, staying close to a "combat cruise" speed (for my Jug I like 200-250 IAS regardless of altitude).  The key is how you maneuver to stay with the bombers...

I always ask for bomber heading and calls for when they turn to a new one.  I set my flight path up with a 45 degree bearing line left and right of their heading.  So basically, I'm moving in a zig-zag pattern that prevents me from overrunning the bombers, while keeping my speed up.  I make my turns back across as I pass behind the formation's 3-9 line.  I believe you have to react to almost all the threats initially, at least to V-ID the guy to determine what type of plane it is and assess its potential threat level.  I almost always find them in a climb where they don't have nearly enough E to pose a threat.  In order to not possess a singular focus, I'll give 'em a quick fake to get them to dive away which allows me to rejoin.  Its a judgement call, to be sure--you don't want to have a pile of enemy that you've buzzed piling up behind the formation, but you can't really commit unless its a sure thing that will allow you to keep your speed and stay with the bombers.  But speed is the key, and I personally think that since most planes do not accelerate well at altitude, its important to set up your escort to maintain and keep as much as you can.

When you have multiple aircraft, its much easier to set up a close, cover, roving, and flank defense, but when you're solo or a pair, this is how I prefer to do it.

My two cents...

Obviously, if you have more

Offline BaldEagl

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Bomber escort
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2007, 09:34:24 AM »
Soney74, I agree with you.  I didn't mean to suggest that the escort pull off 20-30% throttle to maintain postion.  The escort needs to maintain speed in a zig-zag pattern on the bombers high 6.  I guess I didn't make that clear.
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Offline Stoney74

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Bomber escort
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 09:56:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BaldEagl
Soney74, I agree with you.  I didn't mean to suggest that the escort pull off 20-30% throttle to maintain postion.  The escort needs to maintain speed in a zig-zag pattern on the bombers high 6.  I guess I didn't make that clear.


Roger  :aok

Offline 4deck

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Bomber escort
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 10:01:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gumbeau
I've only been in AH 6 months but I havent seen a proper bomber formation or escort yet.

The bombers are scattered all over the sky and the 'escort' doesn't have a clue  who or how to protect them.

But it generally isnt any better in other games so .....


no worries :)


Why not come over to knights, and fly with us for a sortie. Its actually a fairly sweet formation.:aok
Forgot who said this while trying to take a base, but the quote goes like this. "I cant help you with ack, Im not in attack mode" This is with only 2 ack up in the town while troops were there, waiting. The rest of the town was down.

Offline KG45

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Bomber escort
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 11:52:22 AM »
being a lone escort is an uneviable task, basically impossible to stop a well thought out and executed attack. best to stay way high above, limit the attacker to one high-speed and inaccuate pass, and force him to dive away below the buffs altitude to prevent another pass.
all you fascists, you're bound to lose...