Seems the 15 Brit service personel sold their story

[mietla]

that was way beyond pathetic. They took away their iPods? WTF?

A disgrace.

http://technorati.com/search/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2F%3Fv%3DBQ1b3dNKkCo

http://technorati.com/search/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2F%3Fv%3DPnBykQEK1zY

[DYNAMITE]

Originally posted by Hawco
It is annoying that these folks can make some cash out of this for nothing and that the MOD let them do it, something wrong with that picture.

*cough cough* Jessica Lynch *cough cough*

[Dago]

Originally posted by DYNAMITE
*cough cough* Jessica Lynch *cough cough*

I don't remember Jessica Lynch appearing on Iraqi television mouthing a script  fed to her, or rushing to apologize and take blame for anything, much less admit guilt to a situation that wasn't true.

I was and still am under the impression she acted with more bravery despite serious injuries while being held by a enemy combatant force, unlike the British sailors and marines, who were held by a country they are not at war with.

[DYNAMITE]

Originally posted by Dago
I don't remember Jessica Lynch appearing on Iraqi television mouthing a script  fed to her, or rushing to apologize and take blame for anything, much less admit guilt to a situation that wasn't true.

I was and still am under the impression she acted with more bravery despite serious injuries while being held by a enemy combatant force, unlike the British sailors and marines, who were held by a country they are not at war with.

My point was not about her conduct... it was for us to remember that here in the states it is apparently fine to make millions over your ordeal... that is of course if your story suits American PR needs.

As far as Jessica Lynch never appearing on TV or apologizing and whatnot...she was medicated and unconscious in a hospital bed, getting the best care available to treat her wounds... who knows what she would have done if Saddam's PR machine got a hold of her.

Thankfully for her she was rescued before it got to that.  So she gets to be a hero (and she is) and not dragged through the mud like these Brits.

Lastly, IIRC several of the American's held in the original Iranian Hostage Crisis of 79 were brought out, paraded, and forced to read BS about the evils of American imperialism or some such crap...  Where's the outrage directed towards them?

All I'm saying is give these folks a break before we burn them in effigy.  Lets let the facts come out.

[Dago]

Originally posted by DYNAMITE
My point was not about her conduct... it was for us to remember that here in the states it is apparently fine to make millions over your ordeal... that is of course if your story suits American PR needs.

As far as Jessica Lynch never appearing on TV or apologizing and whatnot...she was medicated and unconscious in a hospital bed, getting the best care available to treat her wounds... who knows what she would have done if Saddam's PR machine got a hold of her.

Thankfully for her she was rescued before it got to that.  So she gets to be a hero (and she is) and not dragged through the mud like these Brits.

Lastly, IIRC several of the American's held in the original Iranian Hostage Crisis of 79 were brought out, paraded, and forced to read BS about the evils of American imperialism or some such crap...  Where's the outrage directed towards them?

All I'm saying is give these folks a break before we burn them in effigy.  Lets let the facts come out.

I am not hanging anyone , but I don't think your comparison to Jessica Lynch is even close.

[culero]

I find it hard to comprehend judging what these folks did when 1) we have no way of knowing whether or not we know the entire circumstances and 2) we weren't the ones staring down the wrong end of a gun.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe soldiers should fight even in the face of long odds when circumstances dictate they should. But, I can also see where in a non-combat situation that holding fire and trusting chain of command to resolve things might be the wisest move. Just because you are armed does not mean that fighting is always the right move. These folks are alive, nobody lost their lives on either side. That's a good thing. If they had chosen to fight, that would not be the case.

And, I certainly do not blame anyone for wanting to enrich themselves

[mietla]

Originally posted by culero
I find it hard to comprehend judging what these folks did when 1) we have no way of knowing whether or not we know the entire circumstances and 2) we weren't the ones staring down the wrong end of a gun.
 

watch her own version of what happened.

http://technorati.com/search/http%3...v%3DBQ1b3dNKkCo

http://technorati.com/search/http%3...v%3DPnBykQEK1zY

"They've pointed their guns at us..."

"and those insect bites, my God, the bites"

[cpxxx]

Originally posted by john9001
you are assuming that if they had resisted, the "superior" force would not have backed down, or even lost the fight if it came to that.

I'm assuming that they were faced with being surrounded at point blank range by several boats on open water armed with heavy machine guns and others armed with RPG's. I'm also assuming that of their 15 personnel only 7 are actual marines the rest being sailors with no combat training and all only armed with assault rifles. I would assume that in those circumstances resisting would not only be folly, it would be suicide. On top of that I would assume the RN's ROE in those circumstances is that they may only fire on Iranian craft if fired on first.

They had no choice but to surrender.

In the same circumstances even Americans would have surrendered. The difference with Americans though is that they would never have left their people so badly exposed.

It was a right British **** up.

[mietla]

what was HMS Cornwall doing. How would they let this happen? Refueling helo? what kind of operation is that.

[mietla]

Originally posted by cpxxx
. On top of that I would assume the RN's ROE in those circumstances is that they may only fire on Iranian craft if fired on first.

They had no choice but to surrender.

In the same circumstances even Americans would have surrendered. The difference with Americans though is that they would never have left their people so badly exposed.

It was a right British **** up.

 I agree. Lambert contacted the chain of command and was told to hold fire.

But I do have a problem withe their cowardy behavior after that.

[culero]

Originally posted by mietla
I agree. Lambert contacted the chain of command and was told to hold fire.

But I do have a problem withe their cowardy behavior after that.

Am I correct in assuming that by "cowardly" you mean them having uttered "confessions" while in captivity?

If so, here's my question: Isn't this scenario entirely different than similar circumstances in time of war? The UK isn't in a state of combat with Iran, therefore there are no tactical problems created by the prisoners cooperating.

I know what I would have told people under my supervision - "Do whatever it takes to stay healthy, and chill. We will not leave you there, but we're gonna try to talk you out first. In the meantime, cooperate with them."

~shrug~ And as for talking to the media and cashing in, these are citizen soldiers. If they are not disobeying standing or direct orders to the contrary, and do not say anything inappropriate from a national security standpoint, I see no ethical problem.

[mietla]

crying in a view on the enemy because they've taken your iPod and called you Mr Bean?

What happen to "name, rank and s#"

[culero]

Originally posted by mietla
crying in a view on the enemy because they've taken your iPod and called you Mr Bean?

What happen to "name, rank and s#"

Its still SOP when what you say may give the enemy a tactical advantage. My point is that wasn't the case here. Nothing but pride was wounded, everyone came home alive and well. All is good so far as I see it.

[Squire]

You have a problem with their behavior because your sitting in front of your PC, not surrounded by a bunch of machine guns in an open boat.

Maybe the Marines (the 4 of them) should have opened fire and then they could all have been killed, but the internet-commandos would be happier in their cartoonish bravado, and we could post silly things like "they died fighting" or whatever hallow nonsense would seem fitting, then we could go and make lunch and turn on cable sports.  

As for them selling their stories? who cares, let them sell their stories, they got approval from the MOD to do it.

They were not at war with Iran, they were not fired on, and it was common sense to do what they did. As for the vidoes, those were coerced.

[Dago]

Originally posted by Squire
You have a problem with their behavior because your sitting in front of your PC, not surrounded by a bunch of machine guns in an open boat.

Maybe the Marines (the 4 of them) should have opened fire and then they could all have been killed, but the internet-commandos would be happier in their cartoonish bravado, and we could post silly things like "they died fighting" or whatever hallow nonsense would seem fitting, then we could go and make lunch and turn on cable sports.  

As for them selling their stories? who cares, let them sell their stories, they got approval from the MOD to do it.

They were not at war with Iran, they were not fired on, and it was common sense to do what they did. As for the vidoes, those were coerced.

Another person who doesn't bother reading all the words.  
 


Hardly anyone faults them for not getting into a gunfight when outnumbered, it is all about their behavior during captivity and afterwards.

Read all the words, even the big ones.