Firefly Icon

[Furball]

How come it is M4, and not Firefly? or Fire? or FiFy? or FrFly? or FirFly?

[Makoyouidiot]

For the same reason that the M-8's icon is M8, rather than Greyhound, or Greyh, or whatever.

[Furball]

But (i may be completely wrong here) the Firefly is a British tank, and was not known as the M-4, which the US designation of the Sherman?

[Furball]

British Nomenclature
The British received far more M4 medium tanks, approximately 17,000 (roughly 34% of all M4s produced), than any other Allied nation. The British practice of naming American tanks after American Civil War generals was continued, giving it the name General Sherman after Union General William Tecumseh Sherman, usually shortened to Sherman. The US later adopted the name and the practice of naming tanks after generals. In British usage, Sherman I=M4, Sherman II=M4A1 and so on. Additional letters denoted other features; A for 76 mm M1/M1A2 L/55 gun, B for the 105 mm M4 L/22.5 howitzer, C for the OQF 17 Pounder gun, and Y for the wider tracked HVSS type suspension.

Sherman I - M4 with 75 mm M3 L/40 gun
Sherman Hybrid I - Sherman I with composite hull (cast front, welded rear)
Sherman IB - Sherman I with 105 mm M4 L/22.5 howitzer
Sherman IBY - Sherman IB with HVSS
Sherman II - M4A1 with 75 mm M3 L/40 gun
Sherman IIA - M4A1(76)W, Sherman II with 76 mm M1 L/55 gun
Sherman IIAY - M4A1(76)W HVSS, Sherman IIA with HVSS
Sherman III - M4A2 with 75 mm M3 L/40 gun
Sherman IIIA - M4A2(76)W, Sherman III with 76 mm M1A2 L/55 gun (unlikely to have been used by UK troops)
Sherman IIIAY - M4A2(76)W HVSS, Sherman IIIA with HVSS (not used operationally by UK troops)
Sherman IV - M4A3 with 75 mm M3 L/40 gun (no Sherman IVs used operationally)
Sherman IVA - M4A3(76)W, Sherman IV with 76 mm M1A2 L/55 gun
Sherman IVB - M4A3(105), Sherman IV with 105 mm M4 L/22.5 howitzer
Sherman IVBY - M4A3(105) HVSS, Sherman IVB with HVSS.
Sherman V - M4A4 with 75 mm M3 L/40 gun
Sherman VI - M4A5 (paper designation to prevent confusion with Canadian production)
Sherman VII - M4A6 with 75 mm M3 L/40 gun (delivered to British with Ordnance RD-1820 diesel engine)
Sherman II ARV III - M32B1 TRV (M4A1 Sherman II chassis) recovery vehicle

Conversions and modifications of the M4 by their foreign users included the British-Commonwealth Firefly with potent British QF 17 pounder (76.2 mm) anti-tank gun; Adder, Salamander, Crocodile, and Badger[1] flame-throwing Shermans; Kangaroo armoured personnel carrier; Armored Recovery Vehicles (ARV); gun towers, and the specilist military engineering vehicles of "Hobart's Funnies" designed specifically for Operation Overlord ("D-Day") and the Battle of Normandy. In 1945, the 1st Coldstream Guards at the Rhine fitted Sherman turrets with two 3-inch (60lb) RP-3 rockets on rails to create the Sherman Tulip. Canada created a prototype anti aircraft vehicle with four 20 mm Polsten cannons mounted in a turret on Canadian-made M4A1 hull called Skink. The Soviets reportedly replaced the US 75 mm gun on some M4A2s with the 76.2mm F-34 gun of the T-34 medium tank to create the M4M but discontinued the practice when assured of US ammunition supply (Zaloga 1984:217).

[Makoyouidiot]

Still, it is an M4, the same as a P-40B was a Kittyhawk in RAF service, and the E was a Warhawk, but both B and E were Warhawks in USAAF service.

[Makoyouidiot]

And while the Brits made the Firefly, others used it as well, correct?

[Furball]

The P-40's in game are not British versions.

I dont think the Americans did, only commonwealth countries, so the name Firefly should be right?

If your argument is correct, why is the Boston not called DB-7?

[Makoyouidiot]

well, you have me there, although the Bostons should actually be named as variants of the A-20, I belive stripped-down A and B models that the Brits modified after recieving as part of lend-lease

[Furball]

The RAF received the French orders once they strung up the white flag, which were originally named DB-7 (Douglas Bomber 7).  I believe the A-20 was the American version and they used the British term of Havoc as the nickname.

[E25280]

Originally posted by Furball
How come it is M4, and not Firefly? or Fire? or FiFy? or FrFly? or FirFly?

AFAIK, even if the British were using an American tank, it still retained its numeric moniker.  For example, the M3 "Lee" was slightly modified for the British and became the the M3 "Grant".  Even the British tanks had numeric designations:  The Matilda was the A12, the Churchill was the A22, the Comet was A34, etc.

Even if I am wrong (who knows anymore), think about the future . . .

The Ta-152 shows up as a "190" until close enough to be identified separately.  The Tempest shows as a "Typh" until it gets close.

So, it would follow, that any M4 chassis would show as "M4" until you are close enough to identify it as a specific variant.  Imagine seeing 6 M4s on a battlefield, not knowing until you are close enough in your jabo of choice to pick out "FRFL" from "M4A3" from "M4105" from whatever.  Same could go for the PzkwIV if they ever decided to do multiple variants (Pnzr becoming PzH, PzC, PzF, etc.).


Well, ok, multiple variants of GVs are probably not going to happen in my lifetime . . . but a guy can dream!

[Furball]

Good points..

But from what i can understand, it is a similar situation to the Mustang in RAF service.

It was not called the P-51, the marks followed the British system of Roman numerals...

P-51B = Mustang Mk. III
P-51D = Mustang Mk. IV

Maybe it is a case that they will add more Shermans in the future, and that the icon will change when you get close (although aircraft have to be very close to see them anyway!)

Oh and why is the Tiger not showing as the PNZR VI?

[straffo]

I think with a icon ala :
Sherman IIIA - M4A2(76)W, Sherman III with 76 mm M1A2 L/55 gun
the screen would be clutered quite fast

[Geary420]

Originally posted by Furball
How come it is M4, and not Firefly? or Fire? or FiFy? or FrFly? or FirFly?

Maybe they are saving that tag for your beloved Faiery (sp?) Firefly

[frank3]

Originally posted by straffo
I think with a icon ala :
Sherman IIIA - M4A2(76)W, Sherman III with 76 mm M1A2 L/55 gun
the screen would be clutered quite fast

Don't forget the serialnumber and factory-batch number

[E25280]

Originally posted by Furball
Oh and why is the Tiger not showing as the PNZR VI?

Got me there.  Probably because it is would be too difficult to distinguish between a "PNZRIV" and "PNZRVI" icon, whereas the vehicles themselves would be easily distinguished by the naked eye in real life.  Just a guess, though.