Author Topic: A question on ethics in FSO (Read 2076 times)

toadkill · « **on:** April 13, 2007, 11:10:43 PM »

Should i be expecting To be HO'd in FSO now? Or can the squad leaders encourage their men not to HO. I'd like to think that FSO is supposed to be separate from the General mundane of the MA, where people used tactics in their ACM that are frowned upon.

All i ask is that squad leaders who wish to preserve the FSO event's fun please tell you men to refrain from Ho's and Rams.

Vulcan · « **Reply #1 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:22:40 AM »

HOing was a legitimate tactic, used commonly by the LW against bombers, and the US Navy (lookup the thatch weave).

TinmanX · « **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:28:24 AM »

I HO'd some buffs. It was very nice!

toadkill · « **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:34:44 AM »

Buffs are totally different than fighters. You ALWAYS shoot back at people in buffs. But in fighters if you don't expect a HO. you generally don't shoot back. And its times like this that it is the most aggravating.

i could have killed him before he even started hitting me with his 3 second long spray. but i couldn't see his muzzle flash, or see tracers, to i held off.

NOTE: there are gondies on those wings

ROC · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:37:04 AM »

Quote

But in fighters if you don't expect a HO.

Hmm, I Always expect it, so I don't go nose to nose like that. Best way to avoid the HO.

toadkill · « **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:42:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by ROC
Hmm, I Always expect it, so I don't go nose to nose like that. Best way to avoid the HO.

I agree but in a 109 with gondies there is not much to do, if i turn off early, hes on my 6 if he wants to be. In these situations The only feasible tactic that i can see is MAD. I guess people in this aren't the Soviets.

TinmanX · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:42:22 AM »

I'll say this in seriousness....

I HO'd a lot of buff formations tonight, when their Jugg escort finally arrived, I flew straight through that pack too and took a few shots on my way, what I would call "high deflection shots" but what others might percieve as HO's.

In a situation like FSO I do not expect any degree of mercy. It's a kill or be killed, one life situation. It isn't the MA/DA whatever. It's a win or lose/fight or die scenario and I give and expect no quarter.

toadkill · « **Reply #7 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:44:55 AM »

If this is how the general public feels then, Be warned I'm gonna start Ho'ing. And if you are planning on doing it to me you better have killed me by D800 when you die.

TinmanX · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:50:25 AM »

Don't misunderstand me Toad, I don't go looking for the HO, however, if a plane wants to fly nose to nose with me in FSO I'm not shy on the trigger either. It's not the MA where you have the chance to up another plane and issue a few insults on 200. If you see a plane nose to nose with you in the SEA, open up.

REP0MAN · « **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2007, 01:10:05 AM »

I am a strong opponent of the HO tactic.......

In the Main Arenas.

In FSO, there are no second chances. The guy that you let go by because you are too ethical to fire in a HO merge, will be the guy who lands six kills on the Buff group you were escorting. It will happen here, believe me.

Of course, each situation has it's differences. If it's T+75 and you find a straggler who wants to fight, then, by all means, have an honorable fight. If it's the first wave of bomber escorts coming over the shores of Germany, these 20 and 30mm spud guns will be blazin'. I'm sure that the consensus will be similar.

Thank you for flying the Aces High Special Events. Thanks for your input and discussion.

Kurt · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2007, 01:45:29 AM »

FIRST AND FOREMOST...

It takes TWO to HO.... So Toad, you were one.

Secondly, as mentioned above... HO was commonly used, and trained in some attacks.

Sorry you died that way, but the beauty of the HO is that either pilot can stop it from happening... No one has a gun to your head... well.. They do.. But you can change that and if you choose not to, you get shot.

I don't feel your pain. I would have jinked.

TracerX · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2007, 01:50:15 AM »

Wether I am in the MA or the SEA, I always expect the HO. If you don't expect it, your playing with fire and are looking to get burned. I have very rarely been hit on a HO situation unless I am also trying to shoot. No honor gained or lost either way, but that is why I almost always avoid them. Most pilots can see a HO comming a long way off, and will take steps to avoid it. Never assume the other guy is not going to shoot.

My observation from the picture toadkill is that you attempted to fly directly under his nose. Just a hint, in case you haven't been instructed yet, it is better to fly to the right or left rather than going directly under him, and always be changing your flight direction. It is not too hard to make him miss. In fact, it is so easy, that I assume that anyone that gets shot down by a HO was flying dangerously and deserves to be shot down. In our squad, your letting your wingman down if you get shot down in a HO situation. It is looked at the same as not checking his 6, or failing to clear his 6, because now you have left your wingman alone. Ho's are too risky to play with, and we avoid them like the plague.

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2007, 05:11:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kurt
FIRST AND FOREMOST...

It takes TWO to HO.... So Toad, you were one.

Secondly, as mentioned above... HO was commonly used, and trained in some attacks.

Sorry you died that way, but the beauty of the HO is that either pilot can stop it from happening... No one has a gun to your head... well.. They do.. But you can change that and if you choose not to, you get shot.

I don't feel your pain. I would have jinked.

I see this statement made by noobs all to often.

It only takes 1 to fire.

Dream Child · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:44:15 PM »

Well this is interesting, we're here having a discussion about being honorable in a war. To HO or not to HO in the FSO, that is the question. I'll answer it. If there's an enemy plane in front of my nose, I'm pulling the trigger. If that happens to be a HO, then so be it. I'm not going to look for the HO, because I don't want to deliberately give someone the chance to shoot at me. I'm not going to try to avoid the HO in a furball. If he's too darned dumb to come strait at me and not pull the trigger and he dies, then he's dead, and I won't have to fight him any more, and he won't be able to shoot down any more of my buddies, just like in real life. May I suggest to Mr. Toad or anyone else, that if you're looking for the HO, you probably won't last long anyways, so it's really not much of a threat.

ROC · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:59:47 PM »

Nose to nose is going to cause an HO, there are no 2 ways about it. It's a simple fact of nature, when I see someone screaming at me straight on, I have no idea if it's toadkill or whoever on the other end of that screen, and more often than not they are going to take the shot. If I'm in a fight, and notice at the last minute that someone is going for my nose, am I to Hope he doesn't shoot or take him out first?

I'll evade first, as HOs just aren't the best tactic and if Really a Head On then a collision will occur, but I'm sure not going to base my 1 life in an event on the Assumption that a class act is flying towards me.