Author Topic: He111 will eventually be needed (Read 5171 times)

coinbird · « **on:** April 16, 2007, 03:24:12 PM »

I know it would sit as a hangar queen in MA, but was such an important plane for the german war effort, and it will be greatly needed if there is going to be a CT based on the battle of britian.

trotter · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2007, 03:34:02 PM »

coin bahd.....angry for coins

frank3 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 16, 2007, 04:37:18 PM »

I always found the He-111 to be needed, and I doubt she'll be a hangar queen.
Compared to the Ju-88 (the only German level-bomber in the game!!!) she would do well. Better armament, a decent speed and loadout.

And the historical value would compensate for all drawbacks

Krusty · « **Reply #3 on:** April 16, 2007, 05:12:36 PM »

Ju88 has better payload, better speeds, better range, and probably better defensive guns.

EDIT: That was just to clarify, y'all know I want the He111, no need to repeat myself

Bodhi · « **Reply #4 on:** April 16, 2007, 05:36:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Ju88 has better payload, better speeds, better range, and probably better defensive guns.

I guess it is time for facts again:

He-111 was able to carry approximately the same amount of ordanance by it's final versions, 5511 lbs. which is the same amount as the Ju-88.

The He111 has a 2800 km range. The Ju-88 has a 2108 km range.

The Ju-88 is faster than the He-111 by almost 110 kph. (Hey, you got something right!)

As for defensive armnament, the He-111 started out with three defensive 7.9MM guns, as did the Ju-88. The final He-111 had 5 7.9MM and 1 20mm and one 13mm defensive guns. The Ju-88 bomber version maxed at 6 7.9MM guns. (The night fighter version had 1 20mm and 3 7.9mm guns in a hard nose.)

That said, I think the He-111 would have a place in game and I would be all for it's inclusion.

Lusche · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2007, 05:45:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by frank3
I always found the He-111 to be needed, and I doubt she'll be a hangar queen.
Compared to the Ju-88 (the only German level-bomber in the game!!!) she would do well. Better armament, a decent speed and loadout.

And the historical value would compensate for all drawbacks

At start of WW2, Ju 88 was a brand new bomber, the He 111 already several years old and nearing the end of it's useful service life. The 88 eventually went on to evolve into a myriad of fast bomber, ground attack, heavy destroyer, recon and (perhaps most most important) nightfigter versions. The He was considered outclassed at a relatively early point in the war, being relegated whenever possible to more secondary roles.
Sadly, the inability to introduce more capable replacements in sufficient numbers forced the Luftwaffe to continue the use of this outdated plane.

And now for my usual mantra: Give us the Do-217!

Krusty · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2007, 05:48:09 PM »

The very final latest versions had 13mm guns on them, yes. Most had 1x7mm in nose, 1x7mm in dorsal, 1x7mm ventral bin firing aft, and the 20mm (if equipped) was in ventral firing fore/down. There were side guns equipped in a window on each side, but often these were of little use and many were removed in the field.

As for the payload: The He111 could carry larger over-load bombs, but only 2 of them on an external rack. Unlike the Ju88, which could carry external AND internal, the He111 could only carry one or the other, as the external rack mount blocked the bomb bay doors completely.

Bodhi · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2007, 05:53:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
As for the payload: The He111 could carry larger over-load bombs, but only 2 of them on an external rack. Unlike the Ju88, which could carry external AND internal, the He111 could only carry one or the other, as the external rack mount blocked the bomb bay doors completely.

1 x 4,409 lb bomb (carried externally) and
1 x 1,102 lb bomb (carried internally) or
8 x 551lb bombs (all carried internally)

Try again.

Krusty · « **Reply #8 on:** April 16, 2007, 05:55:32 PM »

You are incorrect, Bodhi. The He111 had vertical bomb racks. They could not accomodate the larger bomb sizes. The external racks completely blocked the bomb bay doors regardless, as they had a contoured shape to reduce drag.

Your source is not accurate.

Bodhi · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2007, 06:00:32 PM »

The torpedo rack definitely covers the bomb bay. Not the external bomb racks though.

I think I will trust the Battle of Britain Historical Society. Their accredidation far exceeds your propensity for distorting facts.

Lusche · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2007, 06:02:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
You are incorrect, Bodhi. The He111 had vertical bomb racks. They could not accomodate the larger bomb sizes. The external racks completely blocked the bomb bay doors regardless, as they had a contoured shape to reduce drag.

Your source is not accurate.

Just out of my crappy memory... didn't have the later He 111 versions (H16?) external racks (ETC Träger) mounted under their engine nacelles?

tedrbr · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2007, 06:33:22 PM »

Okay. I'm confused.
The question I have to ask is: are you looking for an EW version of the He-111 to be used in the EW arena and BoB senerios? Or do you want an improved LW version of the He-111 ...similar load to JU-88 but much, much, much slower.....to sit in the back of the hangar next to the Arado in LW?

Additionally, since we are apparently going to get a EW/MW medium level bomber by popular vote, do we expect another EW/MW bomber to be added to the game in the forseeable future? We expect the Mitchell to prove that popular?

Serenity · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2007, 06:44:58 PM »

YES! to the He-111! I was so disappointed when it didnt make it through the votes... I think its much more significant than the B-25, but hey, thats just me.

Krusty · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2007, 06:51:42 PM »

Bodhi: The external bomb rack was the same for torpedos and for the larger sized bombs. The torpedos simply staggered their position so the fins didn't hit each other. This is also the same rack used when the He111 was a transport, carrying cargo canisters instead of bombs. It was pretty much the same rack for all external ord.

These racks are placed directly OVER the bomb bay doors, completely blocking them. There is no way to jettison these racks in flight, and they completely cover the bomb bay doors.

There's no way you can carry the external racks with internal ord.

Krusty · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2007, 06:52:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lusche
Just out of my crappy memory... didn't have the later He 111 versions (H16?) external racks (ETC Träger) mounted under their engine nacelles?

I think you're thinking of a different plane. The He111 couldn't support a bomb rack there. That's where the oil cooler and radiator were, and right behind that was the gear doors (there's no gap between the engine and the gear doors, they're back to back).