Dogfight boardgames

[Kirin]

Greetings aces

After leaving the computer sim world I (re-)discovered the good old dice throwing fun. In the last 1.5 years my game collection grew from like 5 to 50+ boardgames. Starting with the usual gateway games like 'Settlers of Catan' I worked my way up to the most complex games. Gaming sessions at 7h+ are quite common amongst my gaming group now.

Just recently my hunger for dogfighting has risen again so I started scanning for airwar games. I wanna post my findings now and maybe start a little curiosity for the unplugged hobby.

On top of my list is

Birds of Prey (not published yet)
BoP is a highly detailed, realistic dogfight simulation set in the modern days. From relevant aerodynamic calculations to pilot workload every detail of air combat has been taken into account. To spare the player from the math normographs are used to compute data like true/indicated airspeed, turn performance etc. Planes are moved on a hexgrid on tilt boxes to visualise their attitude. But the real flying is done on the PHAD (Pitch, Heading and Attitude Display), a display of concentric rings and cells.
At the moment I am participating in the blind tutorial beta test. I am still waiting for the testing material but just reading the tutorial has gotten me really excited about this one!
More info on BGG Birds of Prey

Whistling Death (Fighting Wings Games)
WD is the latest installement in the Fighting Wings series. Some of you may know the computer versions of 'Over the Reich' or 'Achtung Spitfire!'. Also a highly realistic depiction of air combat set in WW2. I only skimmed through the quickstart rules but judging by its reputations WD is THE dogfight boardgame to date. It has been called the ASL (advanced squad leader) of air combat games - more a lifestyle than a game. It also has been the highest rating war game on BGG for some time. I am eager to try it some time.
Whistling Death

 Wings of War
Taking a plung into shallow waters here. WoW is a quick, fun, easy to learn dogfight game set in WWI. You are using manouver cards to plot the path of flight. Like in a miniatures games LOS and range I checked with a straight edge. Damage is taken by the draw of a card. The different planes (one/two seaters, the famours DDr) and ease of play are quite enjoying. The preplotted movement gives it a guessing game taste. Due this spring is 'Dawn of War' which is taking WoW into WWII. Looking forward to that for sure.
Wings of War

These are my top 3 for the moment. For a more complete list check following links:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2965
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/12847

and
Aces High - The boardgame

[Seagoon]

Wow, those would all make really neat Computer Sims!

[tedrbr]

When it came to those kinds of games, me and mine played various StarFire games more than most others.  Probably part of why I'm a Honor Harrington fan to this day.

AD&D, BattleMech, and Star Fleet Battles falls in there as well.

[FiLtH]

I love rolling dice. If theres dice in a game, i'll play it.

[SunKing]

Recent discussion on these games.



http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=196660&referrerid=3787

[Shifty]

I played a couple of similar games back in the 1980s. I believe one was called Dauntlass, it was made by Avalon Hill. I also had one from SSI but I forget the name, it had post WWII era jets from Korea through Vietnam.

I used to play a lot of the board war games like Flat Top, Tobruk, Squad Leader, and so on. Then the home PC came along and I got rid of the board games. They were a lot of fun , the biggest drawback was finding somebody else who was intrested enough to learn all the rules.

[Seagoon]

Hi Shifty.

Originally posted by Shifty
I used to play a lot of the board war games like Flat Top, Tobruk, Squad Leader, and so on. Then the home PC came along and I got rid of the board games. They were a lot of fun , the biggest drawback was finding somebody else who was intrested enough to learn all the rules.

I used to play them as well. Actually I've found that the biggest drawback is small children. Little fingers can't resist moving the chits around, eating them, knocking the board every five minutes, etc.

The PC was a godsend to Grognards in that respect, but unfortunately it does take what used to be a wonderfully social event (playing a game together, complete with chips, beer, music, caffeine pills, etc.) and remove that element almost entirely. Even with online chat, you don't have nearly as much social interaction. I miss the old "game night" atmosphere once in a while.

- SEAGOON

[ravells]

Many of the old Avalon Hill games have been ported over to a virtual format so you can play against remote opponents, but it's just not the same as being around the table with a few beers.

Ravs

[SKJohn]

Originally posted by Shifty
I played a couple of similar games back in the 1980s. I believe one was called Dauntlass, it was made by Avalon Hill. I also had one from SSI but I forget the name, it had post WWII era jets from Korea through Vietnam.

I used to play a lot of the board war games like Flat Top, Tobruk, Squad Leader, and so on. Then the home PC came along and I got rid of the board games. They were a lot of fun , the biggest drawback was finding somebody else who was intrested enough to learn all the rules.

Shifty, was the SSI game called "Foxbat and Phantom"?  Man, this thread brings back a lot of pre-pc memories sitting around my friends houses on the weekends playing these old games . . .
Some of the Avalon HIll games I can remember having were: Richtofen's War, Luftwaffe, Blitzkrieg (my 1st one!), Tactics II, Panzer Leader, Afrika Korps, Guadalcanal,etc.  SSI Games I only had a couple - the one mentioned above and another one called "Sniper" about house - to house combat.

A while back I was mentioning these games to my boys, and we actually got out "Guadalcanal and played a game.  After a while, they really got into the strategy and planning involved in the game and thought it was pretty cool.  The biggest drawback to plaing them is the time they take and having to leve them set up somewhere where they won't be disturbed.

[eskimo2]

With all due respect, in the age of computers why play boardgames when you can have live action?

[Lusche]

Originally posted by eskimo2
With all due respect, in the age of computers why play boardgames when you can have live action?

It's the same theme, but different style. At a different pace. While I'm of course an avid simmer and computer game in general, I very do much enjoy playing games the traditional way. I don't want to stare into the screen all the time, it's nice to have a human opponent sitting in front of you.

My first air combat was Avalaon Hills "Air Force", followed by  the marvellous creations of J.D. Webster:
Air Strike, Air Superiority, Over The Reich & Achtung Spitfire.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by eskimo2
With all due respect, in the age of computers why play boardgames when you can have live action?

You know that's a good question. But like some of the others have mentioned above. There was something really cool about sitting around with some friends playing these games, over a couple of beers or couple of cases of beer. Things are surely more flashy and attractive now, but I do miss the old board game days sometimes. Playing against friends and playing face to face things were a lot more gentlemanly for lack of a better word than having your blood displayed on the windscreen and being called tardlet by a guy 3000 miles away as you make a smoking hole in the virtual terra ferma.

Don't get me wrong,  I wouldn't give up my AH subscription to play Vicory in the Pacific. However I do miss being able to laugh at my dumb move or my opponents over a beer and discuss strats and tactics as the game unfolds. Then again I'm an old fart.

Seagoon

My sons made short work of any game left un attended when they were young, something about all those little colored bits of cardboard.

SkJohn

I think it well may have been Foxbat and Phantom, I don't know why the name of that game escapes me. I do remember the yellow box.
Panzer Leader and Arab/Israeli Wars were another couple of my favorites. also I loved Richtoffens War as well.

[eskimo2]

Can you briefly describe a fight?  How long does it take to play a dogfight?  How far do planes move in each turn?  Do you use dice or cards?  How do you calculate energy, aiming, etc?

[SKJohn]

Originally posted by eskimo2
Can you briefly describe a fight?  How long does it take to play a dogfight?  How far do planes move in each turn?  Do you use dice or cards?  How do you calculate energy, aiming, etc?

This is going WAY back, but as I recall each plane had a movement value and a manuverability factor (for example I recall that the Sopwith Cmael could turn a lot faster going to one side than the other).  You each plotted your moves then worked them out.  You played on "hexagons", so their were 6 (IIRC) different ways you could go - the man. factor limited the number you could turn in one space. . . .
Gunney was figured out using dice as the chance factor, but based on a chart for distance, damage value of your guns, etc.

It all kinda worked like AHII does in a millisecond on the computer - it took us several minutes of plotting and calculatting to do.   Alll in all, I have nothing but positive memories of the hours wasted away playing those games.  To us at that time, they seemed more "realistic" than those stupid games like Life and Monopoly, because our games were based on REALITY - and took into considration the strengths and weaknesses of the actual aircraft/vehicles.

[eskimo2]

Thanks,

I would bet you even learned a few things that could be applied to a real time flight sim.