Cannon Rounds - too effective?

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Pacifica
than why was shooting down aircraft in REAL LIFE so difficult.

Why? Because the VAST MAJORITY of pilots in real life rarely saw an enemy throughout their entire careers! Not even when said enemy flew up behind them unnoticed and ended their careers.

The average AH "pilot" has the benefit of thousands of sorties under their belt. If they ever came up against the average real-life pilot in WW2 (if they were somehow transported back in time) they would know what works and what doesn't. Pilots in real life don't experiment when the end result might be DEATH. Virtual pilots have this ability.

I believe in modern times the idea is that a pilot is much much more likely to survive combat if he completes his first 6 missions. Using simulators, the Air Force has produced a much greater quality of pilot without the training accidents resulting in death.

In WW2 most accidents resulted in death, not a return to the tower, not a lesson learned. Here we learn. I've been shot down over a thousand times in this game. I bet Marseille would have loved to get training like this!

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by Pacifica
Does anyone else think it's way to easy to get kills or be killed? I feel like getting a kill just ain't what it used to be. I've started flying the Mk1's and the old school planes, cuz when you get a kill with .303 brownings, it feels pretty darn good. But it seems kind of lame that anyone can lob cannon rounds and pray one hits...

Would anyone else be in favor of making Cannon rounds less effective in air-to-air combat?

I think it might make AHII less arcade-ish, and put a greater emphasis on skillful maneuvering, patience, and strategy.

Thoughts?

And the difference between lamers spraying mg bullets, and lamers lobbing cannon rounds is what exactly?

I wonder if any WW2 Fighter pilots would be surprised at how many aircraft in this game explode and break to pieces from a couple cannon rounds...

Probably not the ones who actually got hit with cannon fire.

[Krusty]

Oh, and the "fireball" means your pilot was killed. It's easier to render it exploding for a short while than to compute and render the corpse falling from the sky in an out of control airframe.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Pacifica

I'm just saying, if getting kills - even with cannons was oooooohh so effective, than why was shooting down aircraft in REAL LIFE so difficult.

It's amazing how well Allied fighter pilots, armed with .30 and .50 cals,  outscored Japanese fighters armed with the 'magical' cannons so amazingly.

This has GOT to be a troll, right?  

If not, then Krusty and others handled your first question very well.

As for the second one, the answer lay not so much in the armament of the different planes, but in the speed, armor, and tactics.

[Karnak]

I recall one Wing Co's comment on the Spitfire's cannons.  He had flown with eight .303s in the Battle of Britain, and then one day in 1943 he took a Mk IX out on a sweep and caught a Bf109 with a short burst from what he thought was too far to be realistic and the Bf109 came apart in mid air.  Lost a wing and the tail separated from the fuselage as I recall.  When he landed his armorer informed him that he'd fired 20 rounds from his cannons.  Wanna bet if he landed all 20 rounds from long range?

He was shocked by the destructive capability of the cannons compared to his old .303s.

[porkfrog]

i saw a photograph once in a WWII book of a spitfire that took a single 20mm HE round thru the fuselage a few feet behind the pilot and a few feet in front of the tail section. it was about the size of a baseball on the entry side and as big as a beach ball on the exit side. the photo stated it was a MIRACLE the plane made it home to land AND had that round hit the wing it would have taken the wing clean off.

[Spatula]

Heres a short clip of a salvaged P-38's (Glacier Girl) 20mm Hispano being fired at a 40 gallon drum. Note the extensive damage. Also note this is steel, not aluminum as aircraft are...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3316529261715180734

..nuff said.

[Rino]

Maybe he should try not flying in front of "lamers" with cannons....
well, just a thought

[Kweassa]

Actually, I dare Pacifica to produce an actual footage of AH2 plane coming apart with only one hit from any type of 20mm round. Ofcourse, a direct pilot hit would not fall under the terms mentioned above, since its not an issue of structural integrity in the particular case. Up a 109 with a single MG151 20mm or a P-38 with a single Hispano II 20mm, and let's see if anyone can come up with any plane that falls apart from one round.


 At first, looking at just the initial post I thought this was a good thread to mention AH needs exact ammo-load sequence modelled in, but the following posts have proved that this is another one of those mal-informed whine thread.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Actually, I dare Pacifica to produce an actual footage of AH2 plane coming apart with only one hit from any type of 20mm round. Ofcourse, a direct pilot hit would not fall under the terms mentioned above, since its not an issue of structural integrity in the particular case. Up a 109 with a single MG151 20mm or a P-38 with a single Hispano II 20mm, and let's see if anyone can come up with any plane that falls apart from one round.


 

I've done it.

[cav58d]

Anyone ever see the program on the military channel comparing the 109 E to the Spit 1 during the BoB.  Well during the comparison, they showed the audience the hitting power of both the .303 and 20mm on metal from an old scrapped war birds wing......The .303 tore the wing up, but with tiny tiny holes.  1 or 2 shots from the 20mm and it was evident thats all you needed because of the damage inflicted.  You have holes in the wind the size of grapefruit.

[FrodeMk3]

Follow that link for some info on WWII Fighter-Armament. It's got some good technical explanations for your questions.


http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/index.htm

Scroll down to the section on Fighter-Armament effectiveness. Is it just me, or does he happen to compare the planeset they used in WB's?

[Anyone]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Actually, I dare Pacifica to produce an actual footage of AH2 plane coming apart with only one hit from any type of 20mm round. Ofcourse, a direct pilot hit would not fall under the terms mentioned above, since its not an issue of structural integrity in the particular case. Up a 109 with a single MG151 20mm or a P-38 with a single Hispano II 20mm, and let's see if anyone can come up with any plane that falls apart from one round.


 At first, looking at just the initial post I thought this was a good thread to mention AH needs exact ammo-load sequence modelled in, but the following posts have proved that this is another one of those mal-informed whine thread.

ive done it.

[yanksfan]

Originally posted by Pacifica
You've seen this in actual WW2 footage, or just in this game?

it's a cannon round, bigger hole, bullets just punch  little holes, if anything the 50 cals in p51's need to have more punch in this game

[Larry]

Originally posted by Pacifica
Does anyone else think it's way to easy to get kills or be killed? I feel like getting a kill just ain't what it used to be. I've started flying the Mk1's and the old school planes, cuz when you get a kill with .303 brownings, it feels pretty darn good. But it seems kind of lame that anyone can lob cannon rounds and pray one hits...
Would anyone else be in favor of making Cannon rounds less effective in air-to-air combat?
I think it might make AHII less arcade-ish, and put a greater emphasis on skillful maneuvering, patience, and strategy.
Thoughts?

       



Have you ever flown a 109 with a single Mg151/20 or Mk108? You can't spray everywhere and land then more then one kill. In real life a 30mm would take a fighter down in one or two hits if it wasnt made outa wood. And about 3-5 20mms. I have seen alot of guncam footage of wings coming off from cannon fire. In WW2 they didnt have little icons telling how far away the plane was. So they were doing alot more shooting then we do in the game. Sit down and watch the history or military channel one day you'll see what I'm talking about. Theres alot of bullets flying around but when they hit planes fall apart. Like krusty said when a plane explodes that mean the pilot was killed. Would you rather it be like IL-2 when you pilot is dead all you can do is watch you plane fall to earth. With the alts some poeple fly at here it would take a few minutes.