Cannon Rounds - too effective?

[Larry]

Originally posted by Rino
Must be amazingly tough AAA gunners to ignore hundreds of 50 cal
landing around them just because they didn't "explode".

Well most AA guns had armor shields so Id rather be behind one then run with no cover. I think you missed the whole piont I was trying to make I wasnt talking about the gunners I was talking about .50 cals not being able to take the guns out like the HE cannons do.

Then again this is a game would you like your 37mm maned ack to stop fireing when a plane is shooting at it? I bet there would be alot of whines if they did that.

[Kweassa]

I'm still waiting for a filmed evidence of a previously undamaged plane 'falling apart' with a single 20mm round...

[Carwash]

Cool video Spatula

[JohnnyT]

I got lucky with a burst from my P51 a while ago... a spitfire was in a left turn about 600ft ahead of me.. i squeezed the trigger for a split second while the sight was ahead of the target, guessing the deflection shot, and he exploded. Only fired a few rounds, but obviously landed a lucky hit or two.

Nothing to do with cannon rounds, I just wanted to boast lol

[Wolfala]

[/IMG]

Why blow someone up when you can shred them into little pieces 104 rounds per trigger pull?

[Emu]

Originally posted by Pacifica
P.S.--- I'm not pretending I'm a pro that gets kills whenever I please, I just feel that cannon rds should be scaled back in the damage they do---for a better gaming experience...

In all honesty, I kindda agree with you; however, I think we are asking for something with the wrong reasons.  There is always those times when someone with cannons (mainly the british 20mm lasers) 800d from you goes for the spray and pray, and a lucky hit gets your vertical stabilizer, and end of the game it is.  This is specially annoying when going for the rope a dope, and someone just squeezes their trigger for all that is worth, right before they stall, just as you are preparing to pounce on them as they fall from the sky, and sure enough, there goes your tail.  

Anyway, overall, I am sure the lethality of the 20mm is probably more accurate than we think; however, the problem I have is with how the british 20mm makes the german 20mm seem like something coming out of a potato cannon.  Incredibly accurate and lethal at such long distances.

Emu.

[Karnak]

Emu,

What you aren't taking into account is the price paid for the fighters with the Hispano cannons.  20mm cannon weights:

Hispano Mk II / M2 20mm cannon: 50kg
MG151/20 20mm cannon: 42kg
ShVAK 20mm cannon: 42kg
Type 99 Model 2 20mm cannon: 34-38kg
Ho-5 20mm cannon: 37kg
B-20 20mm cannon: 25kg

And then the ammunition for the Hispano is larger and heavier than the other 20mm cannons too.  By the end of it the Hispano armed fighters are paying a significant penalty in weight to carry those cannons with enough ammunition to be useful.

In other words, arm them with Axis or Russian 20mm cannons and they'd be more agile and better handling.

[Krusty]

I disagree oh so much I want to shout!

8kg is about 16lbs. Keep in mind a lot of the Hispano armed planes have a lot less ammo than the other armed planes (consider n1k2, fw190s, 109s even! Ki's, C2, etc etc...).

Planes with hispanos are at no weight disadvantage, at all!

Take a spitfire, sit on the runway. Pull up E6B, note the weight. Fire all cannon. Note the weight. Divide the difference by 240 (pounds per round, basically).

All in all the Hispanos are the most lethal cannon in the game for range, aim, and reliability. They weigh almost the same as the average 20mm cannon in this game, and the round itself isn't much heavier than the average 20mm, and it often carries less (read: weighs less) than contemporary 20mms.


IMO Hispanos have no drawbacks.


EDIT:
Weights I already checked (months ago) on the 190a8, ammo only.

950 13mm rounds = 171 lbs
500 20mm rounds = 242 lbs
280 20mm rounds = 136 lbs (outboard)
110 30mm rounds = 143 lbs (outboard)

Sure it's the extreme, but almost 250lbs of inboard 20mm alone! Forget about the n1k2! Forget about a 109 with gondolas! Heck, even a 109 with just the nose gun carries more RPG than the average spit (150 rounds) and the F-4/G-2 have a 200 round option that is almost twice the RPG of the spitfire, all for a single gun.

EDIT 2:

109G-6 (150 rounds hub gun) with gondies:

Basic 20mm ammo weight = 73 lbs
Gondola 20mm ammo weight = 121 lbs
Total gondolas weight = 507 lbs
Empty gondolas = 386 lbs
each gondola = 193 lbs

I doubt spits carry that much weight around, and are probably more lethal than a gondie carrying 109.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Kweassa
I'm still waiting for a filmed evidence of a previously undamaged plane 'falling apart' with a single 20mm round...

You won't get it from me, I don't film a damn thing.

[Karnak]

Krusty,

It is an issue.  The ammo bins are larger, and weigh more.  The armor for the ammo bins are larger and weigh more (yes, the cannon ammo in Spitfires had armor over the front).

All these things add up.

Yes, the gun by itself is only about 17lbs heavier.  34lbs in a two gun installation.  Then add the weight for the ammo and you end up with either less ammo or more weight or both.  Then add the weight of the larger ammo bins and ammo protection.  Then add in any additional things, such as the streamlining sheaths on the Spitfire's and Typhoon's cannons.

How much over the weight of a two MG151/20 installation with 120 rounds per gun do you think the Spitfire's Hispano installation is?

I'd be curious to know really.

Of course, the Ho-5 looks even better and the B-20 is just insanely light.


Bringing gondolas into it is comparing apples to oranges and is invalid.  Use the Fw190A-5 to compare to a Spitfire Mk IX or something like that.

Maybe an Fw190D-9 and Spitfire Mk XIV.

[theNewB]

He was shocked by the destructive capability of the cannons compared to his old .303s.

honestly you cant compare those 2 a .303 to 20mm thats like apples and oranges concerning hitting power. But other then that i agree with that and must say the damage is fine the way it is, i survive more then 1 cannon hit alot and im in 109e's p40s hurr1s pretty much crap planes and they take more then 4-5 before me wing rips off, 90% of the time they either hit fuel,pilot, or stabs before i even lose a wing. Other then that i think your getting hit in cockpit or your enemy has previously hit your wing cause 95% of the people i fight either fire all weapons at the same time or they are armed with nothing BUT cannon so its more then 1 round more like 1x the ammount your enemy has.

but what do i know

[stantond]

Is someone talking about taking off a wing with a single 20mm cannon round?  I'm in.


Malta