Author Topic: Court Martial Of SPC. M. New  (Read 254 times)

Offline wrag

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Court Martial Of SPC. M. New
« on: April 25, 2007, 01:25:21 PM »
Very interesting articles posted in this blog.

IMHO the soldier NEVER should have been required to take an Oath to serve the UN.

He didn't sign up to serve the UN.

Trying to force any U.S. military people to take an Oath to serve the UN is WRONG WRONG WRONG!

AND IMHO runs counter to the Oath to serve the U.S. and the Constitution.

http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=14&topic=1209

further if the reason for refusing a lawful or direct order was NOT allowed in the court then IMHO this person was RAILROADED!

If I recall correctly I was informed during Boot and ITR that I could refuse an order that was blatently illegal!  But it better be illegal!  Or it would be my backside! The reason given was the Nazi war crimes and the claim they were just following orders.  And the U.S. wanted to insure that such things never happened to the U.S. or in it for that matter.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Squire

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Court Martial Of SPC. M. New
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 02:39:52 PM »
Having troops under UN command does not "strip them" of their parent loyalties (to their respective services) or units, or countries, nor does it put them outside the realm of their own military justice systems.

No more than saying a NATO force does, or a NORAD force, does, or any # of other collective military or political organisations, including coaltions and other military alliances, ad-hoc or permanent.  

I am not a big fan of "UN Operations" per se, I personally think coaltions with a set, mission specific objective are a better way to deploy troops in troubled areas, but I understand the mechanics of what a UN mission is, and is not.

Much of the anti-UN stuff seems to be driven by these weird "conspiracy of one world govt" nutjobs. They have no clue what they are talking about.

As for the soldier refusing to wear a "UN uniform" well several things on that:

#1 There is no such thing as a "UN uniform". The UN has no standing army, it is not a country, therefore you cant be asked to wear a "foreign uniform".

#2 There are many other uniform variations a soldier may be asked to wear, an ISAF patch, for instance. Does wearing an ISAF patch, and being sent to serve on a NATO mission, constitute wearing a "foreign uniform"?

#3 "Being asked to possibly operate against your own country" How silly. All parent nations can remove thier soldiers from any UN mission if they so desire, there is no possibility of being asked to do anything of the sort, ever. Thats just a bizzare, conspiracy driven, rant. The minute that the USA decided it wanted out of a particular UN mission (for whatever reason), its troops are out, they do not have to ask "permission" from anybody, nor does any other contributing nation.

...I have to say, I think this poor specialist was brainwashed by god-only-knows who into doing something stupid that got him into trouble. Probably some nutjobs that wanted to see him go through the ringer for their own political motives, while they sit back and watch.

I dont mind legitimate debates on the UN, but much of this "debate" is mired in a lot of weird, uninformed...crap.

...I recall an incident some years ago, bear with me here. There was a fishing boat of the west coast of Canada, off Vancouver Island that was in heavy seas and it called out a distress. Time was of the essance, and they were not sure of their exact position. As it turned out, two Canadian 442 Sqn F-18s were on an assigned NORAD readiness assignment (on the runway, fuelled, crewed, ready to go). When the call came in through the various channels to ask for the squadron to assist in locating the fishing boat, they had to ask a USAF General at Cheyanne Mountain NORAD HQ for permission to roll. He said yes, btw, and they went. I suppose that makes the US a "foreign occupier"? or the Canadian F-18s "serving a foreign govt"? you see how silly you can turn some of this stuff into?

Common sense goes a long way, trouble is, you cant legislate it.
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Offline lasersailor184

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Court Martial Of SPC. M. New
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 03:04:22 PM »
As blatantly pro-UN that Squire's post is, he is sort of right.

I could flip the coin to decide which way it could go, because it's not a clear cut issue.


The soldiers take an oath to serve only the US, but to also serve the president.  The president tells them to serve the UN (which is not the US), and suddenly they are caught between a rock and a hard place.  I don't think "Paradox" is the right word to describe it, but I'm not an english major.
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Offline john9001

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Court Martial Of SPC. M. New
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 03:05:27 PM »
maybe he did not want to be ordered to give up his unloaded weapon and surrender like the "UN peace keepers" do.

Offline Elfie

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Court Martial Of SPC. M. New
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 03:12:33 PM »
Quote
Having troops under UN command does not "strip them" of their parent loyalties (to their respective services) or units, or countries, nor does it put them outside the realm of their own military justice systems.


According to the link in the original post, this is completely false. Mr. New was asked to swear allegiance to the UN and ONLY the UN. Taking the new oath would have put him under the jurisdiction of the UN only.



Quote
#1 There is no such thing as a "UN uniform". The UN has no standing army, it is not a country, therefore you cant be asked to wear a "foreign uniform".


The blue helmets/beret and armbands of the UN peace keepers is a uniform of sorts, it marks them as belonging to the UN and the UCMJ specifically prohibits US military persons from wearing the uniform or insignia of any foreign power.

I believe Mr. New was correct in his refusal to wear the UN *uniform*.
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Offline wrag

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Court Martial Of SPC. M. New
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 03:26:28 PM »
Think you missed my point?

Got no problem with troops serving........

got a problem with the OATH that Klinton ordered.............

got a problem with this person being court martialed over refusing to take an, IMHO, illegal OATH!  (I don't care who ordered them to take the oath IMHO it's an ILLEGAL OATH! and the order to take it is ILLEGAL!)

Further the OATH they have already given when they entered the military, IMHO, is sufficent!

IMHO the OATH to the U.N. was wrong, illegal, and UNneeded!
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.