Author Topic: The underlying problem with politics in the US (Read 1820 times)

Maverick · « **Reply #45 on:** April 29, 2007, 01:21:43 PM »

The tanker truck fire, fueld by a load of gasoline weakened the span of the overpass to the point thast it collapsed.

Here is the text from the AP article at Yahoo.

An interchange connecting highways to the busy Oakland-San Francisco Bay Bridge collapsed early Sunday after a tractor trailer hauling 8,600 gallons of gasoline caught fire, authorities said.

The truck's driver suffered second-degree burns, Officer Trent Cross of the California Highway Patrol told KGO-TV.

The tanker ignited after crashing into a pylon on an interchange connecting westbound lanes of Interstate 80, which includes the Bay Bridge, to southbound I-880 in Oakland, officials said.

The fire led to the collapse of a second interchange from eastbound I-80 to eastbound Interstate 580 located above the first interchange, Cross said.

The Bay Bridge's heavily traveled double decks run about two miles across the San Francisco Bay.

I suppose some squid will be claiming it was a demo blast that dropped the span sometime soon.

Bodhi · « **Reply #46 on:** April 29, 2007, 01:30:24 PM »

Politics in this country will not change until there is a catalyst that initiates the "Sheep dog citizens" into open action against the "wolves" (government). Continued erosion of our freedoms, continued free living to non-participants in society, and further departure of American jobs are all coming together to force the hands of both sides. Which side that moves first is the big question. Yet, it is fast becoming evident that the "show-down" is coming faster every day.

The question that remains is; What side will you be on?

FrodeMk3 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 29, 2007, 01:51:15 PM »

Origanally posted by Bodhi

Politics in this country will not change until there is a catalyst that initiates the "Sheep dog citizens" into open action against the "wolves" (government). Continued erosion of our freedoms, continued free living to non-participants in society, and further departure of American jobs are all coming together to force the hands of both sides. Which side that moves first is the big question. Yet, it is fast becoming evident that the "show-down" is coming faster every day.

The question that remains is; What side will you be on?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bodhi, I'd say judging by voter turnouts, that American society is now either too divided, or too Apethetic for such action. Hell, you'd think that with the way things went over the last 2 administration's, a third party would have been established by now. But now anyone who's gotten into politics have learned, that being self-serving and taking money from special interest groups to vote the way they want, versus actually representing the people whom you were elected to serve, is far more profitable.

Bodhi · « **Reply #48 on:** April 29, 2007, 02:17:35 PM »

Frode,
It is not the formation of a third party that is going to force these changes. It will be open confrontation between elements of our government and citizens who have "had enough".

People may think this is a far fetched rediculous idea, but I feel that it is going to happen. Many people choose not to be very vocal about their problems with the way American Society is deteriorating. Specifically many people in those rural red areas whose lives are vastly different from those of the lives in the urban blue areas. The blue areas continue to either remain silent sheep (with the, "as long as I have my 2.2 kids, a paid off home, and $50k in th bank everything is all right." attitude) or they dictate nonsense and growth of the "nanny state" while electing officials based on their belief of the utopian urban society.

Meanwhile the red area people are becoming more fed up with a tax burden pushed on them that increasingly seems to them as their out right support of the blue areas. Couple that with the ever present possibility that the blue areas will probably elect an administration that further attacks on our rights as guaranteed by our constitution and you have a recipe for further erosion of trust for the government. Mind you, the catalyst will either be gun control, or further taxation with misrepresentation.

Both sides of the political mess that helped to create this know about it as well. Some are smart and fear our population right now. They fear the ability of the population to rise up and say, "Enough!" Others blindly move forth in their sheep like metality blindly following a pack that is leading to open confrontation. They watch events from the VT massacre and think only punishment of the population by removal of rights is the way to prevent further tragedies. They push for more "gun free zones" while plotting to remove more freedoms and further erode the Constitution, forgetting that personal responsibility is the bottom line problem. This is causing the "sheep dog" citizens to sit up and watch closely. For they know that something is amiss... that something is definitely very wrong.

For me, the only question that remains is the one of how many will act?

bsdaddict · « **Reply #49 on:** April 29, 2007, 02:53:06 PM »

with ya 100%, Bodhi. One of the reasons I'm excited about Ron Pauls candidacy is that he's probably our last hope at turning things around peacefully.

x0847Marine · « **Reply #50 on:** April 29, 2007, 05:01:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
you are correct so far as it goes... You will indeed vote for socialism if you vote for democrats but.. so will you if you vote for republicans.

It is just that the democrats are running toward it while the republicans are walking.

spending? do you want to spend it on worthless social programs that grow every year or wars that get paid off? that is really the choice.. almost every dollar we spend in taxes is going to some worthless social program that democrats have put in over the years.

so... while not much of a choice.. there is a choice... it amounts to survival.

What is the alternative? to "protest" vote for some libertarian and play right into the hands of the socialists?

Say everyone who agreed with libertarian policies including open borders... making all drugs legal and prostitution legal... say we all did... what would they get? like 7% of the vote?

most of us agree with libertarian principals till it gets to the nitty gritty... not enough want open borders or legal heroin.

lazs

Making drugs legal makes too much sense for republicans or dems to figure out... why note for for an Independent thinker who hasn't made up their mind on almost every issue and isn't a party slave?.. just because you dont see them on TV, doesnt mean they dont exist.

Why not make drugs legal?, the rep / dem supported war on drugs in just another failed big gov program... in the 50s just over 2% in the US were drug addicts... after trillions spent, thousands jailed and the advent of "no knock" warrants.. today just over 2% in the US are addicted to drugs.

Corporate America could get stimulant & opiate beverages with a known drug content & purity, to market for pennies on the dollar putting almost every drug dealer out of business. Rather than ripping you off, a junkie can feed his addiction by going to 7-11 like alcoholics / smokers do. Tax these nefarious items similar to cigarettes, rehab, treatment and anti drug campaigns would pay for themselves.

Remember when Alcohol was illegal? people cooked up their own, there was no control on purity or alcohol content and people went blind, and got sick and /or died buying illegally. The exact same circumstances apply to opiates / stimulants, if the .gov were to regulate & control the dosages & purity JUST LIKE THEY DO WITH ALCOHOL, people would no longer be getting home cooked drugs that yield massive dosages that leads to a much faster addiction... but they could buy a 6 pack of opiate / stimulant drinks with much lower dosages and known purity, take it home and down it like beer catching a buzz.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #51 on:** April 29, 2007, 05:09:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by x0847Marine
... but they could buy a 6 pack of opiate / stimulant drinks with much lower dosages and known purity, take it home and down it like beer catching a buzz.

Yes, but what about the children... I mean has anybody studied the effects of second hand opiate buzz?

john9001 · « **Reply #52 on:** April 29, 2007, 05:42:48 PM »

put the coke back in coca-cola.

ravells · « **Reply #53 on:** April 29, 2007, 06:12:43 PM »

Lasz....anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view is a socialist. Bit narrow thinking.

Ravs

Bodhi · « **Reply #54 on:** April 29, 2007, 10:48:28 PM »

Legalisation of drugs is not going to change American Politics.

On the hijack though, the only way to ensure a drop in illicit drugs in this country and stop the strangle hold it has on so many lives is to ensure the actual punishment of suppliers, dealers, tracfficers, and the buyers.

Slaps on the wrist are not working.

Vudak · « **Reply #55 on:** April 29, 2007, 11:54:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi

On the hijack though, the only way to ensure a drop in illicit drugs in this country and stop the strangle hold it has on so many lives is to ensure the actual punishment of suppliers, dealers, tracfficers, and the buyers.

Slaps on the wrist are not working.

Prison is an excellent place to have your drug habit go from troubling to insurmountable.

...

Anyway, I'll tell you what the problem with politics in this country is. Each side, and every person, chooses to take indefensible positions on certain issues.

Saying we should enact higher gun control is an indefensible position. Anyone who looks at it logically realizes that tighter gun control laws solve no problems and make no sense.

On the same hand, advocating the war on drugs is another indefensible position. Anyone with real experience with people hooked on drugs knows that the war on drugs is a waste of money and lives.

If people around the country could just bring themselves to say "Ok, you've got THIS right, and I believe I've got THAT right," our country would be a whole lot better.

That'll never happen in politics for the same reasons such epiphanies almost never happen in here. People, from both sides of the aisle and including myself, are just too set in their ways on certain things. You can lay it out for us as logically and sanely as possible, but we just aren't going to come around.

Some issues just aren't gray. It's either black, or white, and usually half or so of us are on the mistaken side. The fact that we as a whole (and again, including myself) generally have a heck of a time realizing that is the big problem with politics in America today.

Mr No Name · « **Reply #56 on:** April 30, 2007, 12:53:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vudak
Prison is an excellent place to have your drug habit go from troubling to insurmountable.

One of my highschool buddies was a heroin-addicted drug dealer... He was a mess, lost his legit job, a very good one... his wife and mental health... Took what little money (very little) his parents had managed to save over the years... He had to spend 5 years in prison and has been clean for 15 years if you count the time he was in prison. Prison clearly saved his life.

lazs2 · « **Reply #57 on:** April 30, 2007, 08:35:55 AM »

ravs.. anyone who has socialist views is a socialist.. not narrow thinking at all. why does the word offend you? I find that telling... socialists hate to be called socialists.

bsaddict and xmarine... you guys are perfect examples of why libertarians can't win.

I am on your side. I believe in almost all libertarian principles and you guys went off on me. All I did was show make soundbites out of the parties stands on issues.. That is how the press will hit you and you will come unglued...

You guys come off like you are ashamed of your parties stance and like you are hiding something.

I am saying that your parties stance has so many radical ideas that will turn off one segment of the population or another that the rivals will eat you alive. Libertarians always struck me as impotent eggheads.. they stirike others as 666..

The problem is that in order for any of the libertarian platform to work it all has to be in place.

For instance.... Open borders would work if there was no welfare.... Making heroin legal would work if it were not restricted and taxed to the point that the criminals could still make a buck on illegal drugs.. It is way too much to bite off all at once.

Every stance the libertarians have offends some percentage of the population... to the point that only a few percent can stomach their complete platform... and their platform if full of "make or break" issues that are as controversial (indeed, include) as abortion and gun control... every one of their issues is that charged and makes it impossible for some large portion or another to vote for em.

If you try to sideskirt these issues... You come off as being sneaky and dishonest (as you should).

lazs

Vudak · « **Reply #58 on:** April 30, 2007, 10:01:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mr No Name
One of my highschool buddies was a heroin-addicted drug dealer... He was a mess, lost his legit job, a very good one... his wife and mental health... Took what little money (very little) his parents had managed to save over the years... He had to spend 5 years in prison and has been clean for 15 years if you count the time he was in prison. Prison clearly saved his life.

Your buddy is the exception, and you should feel lucky. Prison does very few drug users any good. It's like putting all the messups from local highschools together into one "special school" and expecting them to do well.

All prison does for many people is give them more tricks, more connections, more ideas, more problems. Sending a drug user to prison is a waste of life more often than not, and it's certainly a waste of money.

Glad to hear about your friend, though. I also have a friend who did benefit from jail time... Although he certainly chalks more of the credit up to the rehab he went to before and after it...

Bodhi · « **Reply #59 on:** April 30, 2007, 11:20:40 AM »

Most of the prison systems in this country are a sham.

Prisoners have more rights than guards. They live better than people below the poverty level that are trying to make good. They are treated as though they are special with all their wonderous benefits. What we really need to do is hire the sheriff in Arizona that has the tent city jail. His percentage of repeat offenders is very low, because the prisoners work, live in tents, and have no benefits like television for that matter. Unfortunately the "nanny state" will not allow that.