Author Topic: Stick a fork in me too......  (Read 2000 times)

Offline Jochen

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Stick a fork in me too......
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2000, 04:01:00 AM »
Weazel, I think you can hardly accuse lazs or his undermodeled noodle for your posts about your resignation and stuff? And they also DO hurt this community.

You are a trainer who flies AH free because HTC has trusted you to help and guide new pilots.

Now think about what HTC folks must feel when you fly free in their game and in same time you post public resignation posts and threats that JG 2 will not fly in MA in certain times because of one single plane is in plane set?

Not only you give strange impression to HTC, it will give strange impression to new players. If trainer is so pissed to a game it must suck really bad and it is not woths playing! Indirectly you are responsible for possible loss of revenue for HTC.

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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen'  Warbirds

Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline weazel

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« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2000, 05:09:00 AM »
Weazel, I think you can hardly accuse lazs or his undermodeled noodle for your posts about your resignation and stuff? And they also DO hurt this community.

 It`s nothing more than comparison to AGW and a barb/joke for lazs-chill out.

You are a trainer who flies AH free because HTC has trusted you to help and guide new pilots.

 I don`t fly for free Jochen,go read the post on how it was set-up,I could tell you more but you can read it for yourself soon enough.

Now think about what HTC folks must feel when you fly free in their game and in same time you post public resignation posts and threats that JG 2 will not fly in MA in certain times because of one single plane is in plane set?

 
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As of tonight Ripsnort has been promoted to C.O. of I./JG 2 "Richthofen" as I will not be flying in the main arena anymore. I will finish my tour as as an instructor,whether I will stay after that is questionable.

 I resigned as CO of JG 2 and to avoid guilt by association I won`t remain in the squad,Ripsnort and I have not met in the arena to disband and reform it yet,I *DIDN`T* make any threats or ask any members of JG2 to not fly in the main arena,I only stated *I* wouldn`t fly in main anymore-get your facts straight before you mouth off.

Not only you give strange impression to HTC, it will give strange impression to new players. If trainer is so pissed to a game it must suck really bad and it is not woths playing! Indirectly you are responsible for possible loss of revenue for HTC.

   
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It wasn`t my intent to start a "snowball" effect,and I wish I had just e-mailed HTC with my complaints-hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

 I believe I was trying to express that exact sentiment above unfortunatly I don`t have Badgers literary skills,if you take the time to read further down the original thread I started you would see the following.

   
Quote
I salute them for the best WW II combat simulator to date-they have produced a remarkable game in a short period of time and have eclipsed their previous effort in Warbirds

 
 Now cut to the chase about your real motivations for your comments-or should I reveal them?

 If you have any further comments take it to e-mail.

[This message has been edited by weazel (edited 05-16-2000).]

Offline Jochen

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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2000, 05:40:00 AM »
 
Quote
It`s nothing more than comparison and a barb/joke for lazs-chill out.

Yes, but biting his hook and replying with same style does not improve the situation. I know, I have tried it in AGW!  

 
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I don`t fly for free Jochen, go read the post on how it was set-up,I could tell you more but you can read it for yourself soon enough.

My understanding is that AH trainers are being compensated with free AH time, am I wrong? Apologies if I have misunderstood it.

 
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I resigned as CO of JG 2, Ripsnort and I have not met in the arena to disband and reform it yet,I *DIDN`T* make any threats or ask any members of JG2 to not fly in the main arena,I only stated *I* wouldn`t fly in main anymore-get your facts straight before you mouth off.

Sorry, apparently it was Ripsnort who said that JG 2 will not fly in friday events. It was said by JG 2 CO but since CO was changed I mixed you guys up. This was my mistake and I apologize it.

 
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Now cut to the chase about your real motivations for your comments-or should I tell them?

Please, do so, englighten us all.  

I think my point is that your post about forks and other stuff started a incredible squeak fest (I guess it was not intented) and to me the reasons to do so seems to be quite small, just one plane. In every game there has been phases were some plane has been very common (Spit, F6F in WB, P-51 in AH beta) but they have gone away with the time.

I think there could have been better ways to deal with the issue but of course, I could be wrong. Maybe the trainer - company relationship is looser than in WB but it still seemed bit odd to me.

Sorry but there is no chase going on, I just stated how I feel about the situation. If needed, we can now start using e-male to continue the discussion. Unfortunately my home computer is inoperable right now (has been more than a week) so I can't read my personal e-males in near future, sorry about that  

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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen'  Warbirds

Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes


[This message has been edited by Jochen (edited 05-16-2000).]
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline Badger

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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2000, 06:55:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Nash:
Argh... these posts are killin' me.

Hi nash.....

Outstanding post, thank you for the feedback.

Two comments.

First, I am not a follower.  I did not jump on anybody's bandwagon here, or was my post a "cabbyism".  Obviously, I didn't make up my mind to take a hiatus from the Aces High MA based upon one sole revisit to WB or any particular incident, but I think you already knew that.  It was simply the catalyst to an entire range of issues, some of which are not for public consumption, that drove my final decision.  It is simply about HTC's current product packaging of the MA, trying to be everything to everyone.  It is not my taste, but it is also not an abandonment of HiTech or Pyro or any of the HTC group, for whom I have the highest regard.  If it was, I would simply cancel and go someplace else, but instead, I choose to continue to be one of their best and most preferred type of customers, by consuming little bandwidth, but still supporting them financially.  I WANT THEM TO BE SUCCESSFUL !

Second, my term "exit strategy" was a badly worded comment that does not apply to HTC.  Their organization is clearly a lifestyle company based upon their own statement of who they are, which can be found on their Web Home Page under "About Us".  These kind of companies do not require an exit strategy.  My reference was to the non-lifestyle kind of a company who has multiple shareholders.  They always expect a clear definition at the time of investment as to what their exit strategy is, for example; IPO and non-organic MorA, or they wouldn't invest in the first place.  This is an every day normal business practice.  Talking about an exit strategy should not be a scary thing.    

Thanks again, I really liked your expression of passion for the AH product.

Best Regards,
Badger


[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-16-2000).]

Offline crabofix

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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2000, 07:47:00 AM »

So we are quiters just because things not the way we like it?
Listen now guys, this "SIM" is one year old and the features that has been implanted+the flight model is way better than anything else.
You guys stare at WWII and Brand X way to much. I was around when the started talking about 3.0 in brand x that was 2 years ago.
"2 weeks" is a long time.

Then boy an a gals I have to defend the slow proceedings with the "HA" stuff, we are not yet so many players that fly online that there will be space to implant a HA arena. HTC needs to get more customers, things cant be to hard for thoose poor guys that are trying out the game. And a "barbie" arena is no sulotion at all.
I mean 80 pilots compared to 200 on brand x on prime time? It is a diffrance.
To many two timers maybe? ATTENTION!
YOU GUYS ARE NEEDED HERE , TO KEEP UP THE GOOD SPIRIT!!
If you go more will follow and we end up with a new brand x look a like community, so please donīt.

I get frustrated to, sometimes and I think how ridiculus some people act, but hey, I get more pissed being vulched by a "supposed to be good" pilot like torque, than anything else. But I dont whine about it.

Give Mr HTC guys a chance and a break.
I think they listen more than what they let out for us to know. But theres compatetion amongs the sims and comin features has to be kept secret and wellmade to make a diffrance.

And AH makes a diffrance



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BORK,BORK,BORK!!!"
Crabofix <What happend?...:A stranger morgie turndee burndee ,flip flip flip flip flip flip>
Flygflottlj.19(Lento R5)"swedish Gladiators"

Offline Badger

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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2000, 07:50:00 AM »
Thank you everyone for your public and private responses.

There were no surprises, other than the standard few who bring extremism to any conversation, but as Robert Kennedy once said "10% of people will never agree with anything".    

I want to re-emphasize a point.  I AM NOT LEAVING ACES HIGH !!!!!.  To repost it for a third time publicly, "I'm not canceling my account as yet, but I'm taking some time away from AH until I can get a clearer view as to HTC's vision of what this product is supposed to be."  Geeezz....I hope you all heard that, so the guys that wrote notes pleading for this old critter to stay and join their squad and not cancel my membership, I hope you finally are reading what I have been trying to say.  I know I do suffer from textual diarrhea, but I hope somewhere in the verboseness, my message gets through.    

I do however, appreciate the sentiments that you actually enjoy flying with me, even though I don't contribute that much with my average skill set.  Since the MA is the ONLY supported and randomly populated gaming arena in Aces High, that means I have no place to fly the style I'm looking for, so I will stand down for a while, but still pay my bill.  OK?

It is clear to me that the current AH product is a classic 70/30 marketing package.  By design, it excludes the 15% of high end realism simmers who wish to use an environment such as what Citabria described under his thread "HA ... hardcore dream".  I can attest to that because I am one of those type of dweebs.  In my opinion, it also excludes the bottom 15% of people who are complete neophytes and log on expecting something much easier than the current MA delivers.  I know, because I took the time to do some market research by isolating three of those "what is a rudder?" type people and spoke to them off-line.  They were so overwhelmed on-line they won't be signing up, even offering them personal trainer one on one time.  Hence, there goes 15% of the potential,revenue stream, potentially to the WB ACA $9.95/month (air starts, no blackouts or redouts, no stalls, no compression, flys on rails) environment.

You can jockey these percentages around anyway you wish by a few points, but the result is the same.  It still is polarity marketing by design that there's absolutely nothing wrong with.  If HTC can indeed get critical mass out of this marketing paradigm, then it is the way to go.  It is my personal opinion that there's a time limitation intrinsic in the current market that could hurt them.  That time frame is 6-8 months before they begin to see the effects of WB 3.0 (being introduced at CON 2000, June 22nd and a good guess that it might be flat rate) and WWII On-line going "open beta", probably during the fall.  The current AH packaging pre-supposes that both of these products will NOT draw either end of the AH polarity packaging, or any other player demographic in the middle 70% away from Aces High.  I think that's a dangerous set of assumptions, again note!!!!, these are my personal opinions, not gospel.

I appreciated fatty's "Pass the salt, I ain't going nowehere" pep rally message and his theme of fly whatever way you want and "If all else fails, do what I do, auger 12 times in a row so you take death a little less seriously."      Well said with lots of "pass the beer" followings, but it simply states the enjoyment that the middle 70% are getting from the current Aces High MA packaging.  Add WWII On-line's 10 year old General Ballismo (whatever his name is?) to that mix and HTC should be complimented for providing that solidly defined "gaming" middle ground.

However, this type of MA is not what I want as a consumer of on-line multiplayer flight simulations, which brings me back to my original message.  I am taking some time off and flying more WB again in their HA and other scenarios.  I have spent more dollars in the last three days on WB, then my entire monthly bill to HTC.  That statement alone should perk up the ears of any marketing manager who must be saying to themselves, geeeeezzzz, maybe there's a market to charge a premium and gain incremental revenue in providing some high end capabilities to garner some of that 15%?  I know HTC's resources are limited and I also know Hitech and Pyro appreciate what I'm saying.  I believe if they could at this stage of development, meet the immediate needs of the polarized 20% or 30% (high and low end) totals, they would probably do so in a heartbeat.  It is definitely about priorities and making sure that they "crawl, walk, then run" before trying to expand their user base outside the core revenue contributors.  I have to compliment them for their discipline in maintaining their focus, in spite of not being able to address my personal needs as one of their customers.

Salute to all.....

Regards,
Badger


[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-16-2000).]

Offline Kieren

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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2000, 08:41:00 AM »
I've kept out of this for many reasons, among them I have been so busy lately I have little time to fly, let alone train, let alone MA...

Badger does belong to a squad... sorta. He was a member of JG2, then resigned and joined Mighty and me in the Baby Harp Seals (a decidedly non-squad). This has been like flying alone, I'm sure, but that is what I said it would be...  

Your gaming reality is what you believe it is. If Badger decides he has more fun in WB, then he should fly there and have fun. If he has fun here and wants to fly, he should. It's his money.

I have no problem with a person who clearly and calmly explains a point of view on any topic, whether or not I agree with it. I hope Badger doesn't go, but I understand why if he does. Nothing wrong there, and I surely didn't take anything from his post to be a rant. To me it was "this is what HTC needs, this is what I want- they don't match closely enough for me". In reality, isn't that how we all to some extent approach it?

Right now I really enjoy this game- there are so many ways to play it and so many nuances I haven't discovered that it maintains a "newness" to me. Then again, I haven't been plopped down in front of my monitor for hours on end for some time either.  

Anyone who rails at another for saying they are leaving is missing the point- aren't most of us expatriates from one sim or another? Why are we here, then? Something drove (or lured) us away. How many of us said "good-bye" when we went? I did. And if I ever should leave here, I will do it again.   Not to "yell at the door" (good one, Torque) but to say farewell to any friends I have left by then. Nothing wrong there.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2000, 02:24:00 PM »
The one thing I have learned from my years in WBs and my time here in AH is that the game is simply what you make of it.  Nothing more and damn sure nothing less.

I have already seen a few people perform outright contradictions on themselves.  First on AGW and now here.  Some people simply have a difficult time dialing in to human opposed online simulations.  I suspect most of these folks will end up being disappointed regardles if its WBs, AH or WW2OL.

Think on it.

Yeager
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Nash

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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2000, 03:17:00 PM »
Makes sense to me Yeager. And I agree.

lazs

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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2000, 03:39:00 PM »
As to my undermodeled noodle.... Like i told a potato one time who laughed when she saw it and squealed, (musta been LW) "who ya gonna please with that tiny little thing?".... I replied, "me".

This whole noodle thing does bring up an unpleasant aspect tho..  I drank quite heavily in those days and since you know so much about my noodle.... and knowing your penchant for crosss dressing.... I was just wondering...
lazs

funked

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« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2000, 03:42:00 PM »
SNORE


Offline Azrael

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« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2000, 03:56:00 PM »
Someone's in permanent flame war mode. Must be a funny thing.

Az

Offline Badger

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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2000, 05:43:00 PM »
Well, I think we're all burnt out with this thread, as I know I am.  It's starting to drift and get a little mean in some cases and a few others are trying to turn it into a "build it and they will come" religious experience.  I'm a pragmatist and never been one to sit in a corner and hum "Zen", or trust that by simply believing in something alone, will make it happen.  It takes provocative dialog combined with a healthy obligation to dissent that creates profound change.  Anyone who views that as whining has more in common with the sheep in Aces High than just the graphics.  One can express adversarial views without being deliberately vague, personally insulting or combative.

I think an interesting exercise would be to archive this thread and drag it out for a re-read next January, to see what Aces High looks like at that point?

Thanks again to all who contributed positively.

Regards,
Badger


[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-16-2000).]

Offline Jochen

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« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2000, 10:02:00 AM »
 
Quote
This whole noodle thing does bring up an unpleasant aspect tho.. I drank quite heavily in those days and since you know so much about my noodle.... and knowing your penchant for crosss dressing.... I was just wondering...

Yeah, apparently someone saw you stuck in with chicken. Or that's how I heard the story go.

------------------
jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen'  Warbirds

Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline Torque

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« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2000, 10:19:00 AM »
if you guys are gonna mud fight atleast wear thongs eh.....