Why I'll never own a Pit Bull

[Elfie]

Pit bulls are also bred for shows.

Here is the AKC breed standard for the American Staffordshire Terrier.

http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staffordshire_terrier/

I can't find the guidelines for how much aggression a dog can display w/o being disqualified. I do however recall watching a dog show on television some years back and the commentators talked about that for awhile. There is a limit that cannot be crossed for show dogs. Breeders that breed the show dogs know this and won't breed dogs that are overly aggressive.

Some information from this link: http://www.goodpooch.com/MediaBriefs/GPpitbulls.htm

Are 'Pit Bulls' Naturally Aggressive Towards Other Dogs?

The short answer, "No."  

"There is no scientific proof that genetics cause a breed of dog to be aggressive, vicious or dangerous." - testimony from Standing Committee on amendments to the Dog Owners Liability Act. 2005

"Variability in behaviour has a wider range within a breed than between breeds. Within the discipline of psychobiology and animal behaviour there is no data from empirically supported studies, published in refereed scientific literature, to support the idea that one breed of dog is `vicious.'  The adult behaviour of a domestic dog is determined overwhelmingly by its experiential history, environmental management and training."  - Dr. Mary Lee Nitschke, Ph.D.

Believing the myth that 'pit bulls' are naturally aggressive towards other dogs, all-too-many people restrict their 'pit bulls' from normal, positive, social interactions with other dogs.  Here's an example of how it all starts:

 

    The proud owner of a little, 9-week-old 'pit bull' puppy was out walking her new family member when she came across another person walking her dog.  The other dog owner understandably stopped to meet the tiny puppy.  She asked if it was okay if her dog "met" the woman's puppy, and the woman agreed.  The older dog got up and walked the few feet to sniff the puppy, at which point the puppy's owner pulled up on its leash so she was essentially hanging the poor little thing, with just its two hind legs on the ground.      

    The owner of the adult dog asked the woman to "Please let you puppy's leash go.", at which point the puppy's owner did nothing.  Seeing the poor puppy strangling at the end of the leash, the other dog owner thought it best to move on.    

This is indicative of the anxious responses many dog owners exhibit when meeting other dogs.  By pulling tight on leashes and collars, or worse (as in the case of the puppy's owner), these kinds of inexperienced dog owners are actually creating a negative association with meeting strange dogs.  How would you feel if every time you met someone new, someone yanked a collar around your neck; harshly pulled you away; and ultimately never allowed you to interact with strangers?  You wouldn't exactly be nice and relaxed around strangers, huh?


Same goes for dogs

From further down in the article:

There are two main points that many people fail to recognize:  

     1. There is no such thing as a breed of dog that won't bite.  

     2. The breeds at the top of biting statistics are the most popular breeds at the time.  Meaning, in Canada, Labradors, Golden Retrievers, and German Shepherds and other popular breeds top the bite statistics.  Any dog can bite.  Any poorly trained and unsupervised dog may bite unprovoked.  Breed is not the deciding factor, training and supervision is.

Proper training of any dog includes lots and lots of socialization with as many humans and other animals as possible at the earliest possible age.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Cougar68
Behavioral yes, but not instinct.  I can walk into the kitchen and throw a t-bone steak on the floor and my dogs won't touch it.  I can leave it there and walk into the other room and they still won't touch it.  They'll look at me like I'm nuts for leaving it there, but they won't touch it.  If that same t-bone drops when nobody is home, it's on!!!  An animal's bred in instinct is just as strong as food drive.  It can't be completely eliminated to the point that I would feel comfortable in trusting my or someone else's life on it.  That's exactly what happens with pit bulls.  You're betting your life on that instinct not popping up even once.  It ain't worth it.  Good dogs that aren't bred to kill are too plentiful in the shelters to have to deal with that.

I had a German Wirehaired Pointer one time. I trained this dog to NOT eat from his dish until he was told it was ok. I could tell him to sit, leave the house, come back and he would still be sitting there.....food untouched. Yes, I tested that one time. I left for 2 hours and when I came back the food was untouched.

*edit* I had a *mutt* that was trained the same way. I could also tell that dog to sit in an unfenced yard, leave for as long as I wished, and no matter how badly he wanted to follow me, he wouldn't get up until I gave the ok. It really is all in how you train them.

[Elfie]

Wikipedia has some really good information on pit bulls as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_Bull

A couple excerpts, I encourage folks to read this link and the one I provided above.

Research performed by GoodPooch.com director, Marjorie Darby, finds that dogs involved in attacks overwhelmingly have a known history of aggression, even though many dog owners deny or minimize this fact. The neighbours are usually a better source for documenting negative aspects of a dog's history, than its owner(s). As such, it is further evidence that dogs, including 'pit bulls', don't just "turn" on their owners. A followup to a CDC report on dog bite fatalities came to a similar conclusion.

From the History section:

The ancestors of modern pit bulls come from England. The English White Terrier, the Black and Tan Terrier and the Old English Bulldog are supposedly extinct breeds, this occasion stems from their forced retirement. However, in their own time the English White Terrier, the Black and Tan Terrier and the Bulldog were prized animals.

At one time every county in England had its own terrier. Many still exist, however, many have also come to pass or have mutated into a modern breed; such is the case for the English White Terrier and the Black and Tan, whose descendants include the bull-and-terriers, the Fox Terrier, and the Manchester Terrier. Terriers served a very real purpose in England. Vermin threatened people in more ways than just providing an unpleasant scare or as unwelcome guests; at their best, vermin ruined crops and damaged property; at their worst they served as a vehicle for fleas that carried the Black Plague. Dogs destroyed vermin efficiently and were easy animals to care for. As time went on the sports of badger and rat baiting — among others — caught on. It is from the terrier that pit bulls get their kind nature and juvenile behavior; it is also where the instinct to kill came from.
United States propaganda poster used during World War I depicting a Pit Bull
United States propaganda poster used during World War I depicting a Pit Bull

At the same time, Mastiff type dogs have existed in England for millennia. Their origins are somewhat uncertain, particularly because of myth. It can be assumed, however, that the Celts brought the Mastiff to Britain from the continent. It also known that the Normans introduced the Alaunt. Mastiffs of varying size existed in England for years, but it was not until the Renaissance that formal distinctions were made. These dogs were used in battle and for guarding, but they also served utilitarian purposes, such as farm work. Specifically, these dogs accompanied farmers into the fields to assist with bringing bulls in for breeding, castration, or slaughter. The dogs, known generally as bulldogs, protected the farmer by subduing the bull if it attempted to gore him. Typically a dog would do this by biting the bull on the nose and holding on until the bull submitted. Because of the nature of their job, bulldogs were bred to have powerful, muscular bodies, and the resolve to hold onto a violently-struggling bull, even when injured.

Eventually these dogs' purpose inspired the widespread practice of the bloody sports of bull-baiting and bear-baiting. In Elizabethan England, these spectacles were popular forms of entertainment. However, in 1835, bull-baiting and bear-baiting were abolished by Parliament as cruel, and the custom died out over the following years.

The sport of dog fighting, which could be carried out under clandestine measures, blossomed. Since Bulldogs proved too ponderous and disinterested in dog fighting, the Bulldogs were crossed to English White and Black and Tan Terriers. They were also bred to be intelligent and level-headed during fights and remain non-aggressive toward their handlers. Part of the standard for organized dog-fighting required that the match referee who is unacquainted with the dog be able to enter the ring, pick up a dog while it was engaged in a fight, and get the respective owner to carry it out of the ring without being bitten. Dogs that bit the referee were culled.

As a result, Victorian fighting dogs (Staffordshire Bull Terriers and, though less commonly used as fighters, English Bull Terriers) generally had stable temperaments and were commonly kept in the home by the gambling men who owned them.

During the mid-1800s, immigration to the United States from Ireland and England brought an influx of these dogs to America, mainly to Boston, where they were bred to be larger and stockier, working as farm dogs in the West as much as fighting dogs in the cities. The resulting breed, also called the American Pit Bull Terrier, became known as an "all-American" dog. Pit bull type dogs became popular as family pets for citizens who were not involved in dog-fighting or farming. In the early 1900s they began to appear in films, one of the more famous examples being Pete the Pup from the Our Gang shorts (later known as The Little Rascals)

Very few pit bulls today are bred for fighting. Most are bred as pets or show dogs (talking liscenced breeders). There are folks who let their dogs breed indiscriminately and there are folks who run kennels that are basically *puppy factories*. There are quite a few *urban myths* concerning pit bulls, one of them being that they are still being bred for fighting on a large scale. Dog fights have been illegal in most states since the 1860's, the last state outlawed dog fights in 1976. It is now a felony in 48 of 50 states.

[lazs2]

I don't get the guys who equate a gun with a pit bull.  Or any dog.

A gun will not attack anyone on its own.   dogs will.

All I ask is that you tough guys with the pits and rotts and big dogs... that you take a little responsibility.

If your dog bites anyone then it is fair that you get an assault charge against you..  if it maims or kills anyone then you should go down for murder or attempted murder in the 1st.

What is wrong with that?

lazs

[-CodyC]

Originally posted by lazs2
I don't get the guys who equate a gun with a pit bull.  Or any dog.

A gun will not attack anyone on its own.   dogs will.

All I ask is that you tough guys with the pits and rotts and big dogs... that you take a little responsibility.

If your dog bites anyone then it is fair that you get an assault charge against you..  if it maims or kills anyone then you should go down for murder or attempted murder in the 1st.

What is wrong with that?

lazs

I don't believe that there is anyone on this thread that would disagree with you.  From the beginning all i've argued about is the responsibility that owners have towards their dogs.

[Elfie]

All I ask is that you tough guys with the pits and rotts and big dogs... that you take a little responsibility.

Thats exactly what it's all about Lazs. Owners taking responsibility and training their dogs. I think it would be a good idea if owners were held responsible when their untrained dogs attack.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Elfie
Wikipedia has some really good information on pit bulls as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_Bull

A couple excerpts, I encourage folks to read this link and the one I provided above.



From the History section:




Very few pit bulls today are bred for fighting. Most are bred as pets or show dogs (talking liscenced breeders). There are folks who let their dogs breed indiscriminately and there are folks who run kennels that are basically *puppy factories*. There are quite a few *urban myths* concerning pit bulls, one of them being that they are still being bred for fighting on a large scale. Dog fights have been illegal in most states since the 1860's, the last state outlawed dog fights in 1976. It is now a felony in 48 of 50 states.

Well, at the top of that link is this: "The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed."

And the part you quoted says this:"This section does not cite its references or sources."

Oh, and btw, google pitbull fighting and you will find some of the info from that wiki link that has been c&p'd from other sites

[nickf620]

pit bulls sometimes dont go crazy cause of bad training or anything of that matter  sometimes pitbulls just flip for no reason

for instance talking to my neighbor about this story he said he had a pit bull that was abandoned right in front of a store and he brought it home and it got along fine with their other dog (forgot what type) but he said after something like 10 years the pit bull snapped one day and attacked their other dog then went after his mother she got out but the other dog was laying in the house bleeding to death and animal control refused to go in

when his dad got home he grabbed his gun walked in grabbed the one dog put him in the car and put the pit bull into the trunk drove to the vet said try to save this one put the pit bull down

and that pit bull was apparently a great nice pet till one day it just snapped

my point sometimes it aint the owner that messes up the dog

just my 2 cents in a conversation that stopped 6 days ago

[Mickey1992]

Another local pit bull attack yesterday.  Bit the 9 year-old in the face multiple times.

"Never had any problems before," said Franklin County Animal Control corporal Joe Rock. "(They) stated it was always good with the children and this came out of nowhere, according to the grandma."

http://www.nbc4i.com/midwest/cmh/news.apx.-content-articles-CMH-2007-05-11-0004.html

[lazs2]

yep..  I don't care what you own but I am sick of these a holes all crying that it wasn't their fault when their insane frigging dog attacked someone... "accidents will happen".

Nope.. if their nutjob powerful dog attacks and maims or kills someone then the owner should be thrown in a pit and have police dogs attack him until he is dead.

maybe he can then experiance some of the terror his pos dog inflicted on some little girl or other helpless person before he dies.

lazs

[myelo]

Originally posted by Elfie
I can't find the guidelines for how much aggression a dog can display w/o being disqualified.

attacking and killing the judge usually does it