Author Topic: Partial damage  (Read 684 times)

Offline BlauK

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Partial damage
« on: May 03, 2007, 04:24:52 AM »
Could we a half way point to the damaged state for some parts of the planes?

It would be much nicer to have something in between the current fully functional and damaged states. The partial damage would affect the plane's handling in smaller steps, but hitting a target would usually cause at least some effect.


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Offline Oleg

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Partial damage
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2007, 06:23:57 AM »
We already have this for wings, elevator, engine and pilot.
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Offline Krusty

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Partial damage
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2007, 08:57:39 AM »
No, we don't...

A wing has a threshold of X damage points. If you hit it, but you do not reach X points, the wing functions normally with no drawbacks.

Same for ailerons, same for engines, same for everything, except maybe the pilot (PW system is different).

I think he's talking about taking a lot of hits in a wing, but not destroying it, might reduce lift, or make an aileron less effective (but not take it off).


I, personally, would like to see 2 stages of flap damage, "jammed" and "gone". Right now we have a type of hybrid between the two.

I think it's a nice idea, but that it would take a major re-write of the code to get it done.

Offline Oleg

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Partial damage
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2007, 12:54:43 PM »
Of course, that we have is not exactly what BlauK mean, but close enough. If you played in Warbirds (old one) you must know what i mean.

"Half-damaged state" for wing is losing wingtip, for elevator is losing half of elevator (left or right), oil for engine, wound for pilot. In every case damaged part still partially operational.
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Offline Krusty

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Partial damage
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2007, 01:00:03 PM »
I think BlauK means "on any part" -- that means damage to the wingtip part can be partial but not break the wingtip off.

Offline devild0g

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Partial damage
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2007, 05:48:31 PM »
I think pilot wound r unrealistic u get hit in pinky toe *AAAA HIT AN ARTEry* oh no its just my stupid pinky toe feels more comfortable without it, i mean do u step on a toaster struddle filled with strawberry jam?

Offline Spikes

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Partial damage
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2007, 07:33:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I think BlauK means "on any part" -- that means damage to the wingtip part can be partial but not break the wingtip off.


yeah, that would be nice. Like be able to still fly home if just a little of your wing is broken off...
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Offline Oleg

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Partial damage
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2007, 02:10:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I think BlauK means "on any part" -- that means damage to the wingtip part can be partial but not break the wingtip off.


"The partial damage would affect the plane's handling in smaller steps" - exactly how losing wingtips works :) You can fragment DM further, i.e. before losing wingtip you will lose half of wingtip, but it wouldnt change concept.

btw, i dont say it bad, i just said it already partially implemented.
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Offline BlauK

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Partial damage
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2007, 03:36:42 AM »
I know what we have at the moment :)

I am wishing the additional half way damage to the parts already existing. Especially to engine, wings and control surfaces.

Currently the engine blows the oil all over the canopy. Half way damage could just splash some oil out.

I meant it like e.g. Krusty understood it initially.


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Offline Kweassa

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Partial damage
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2007, 04:11:23 AM »
It would warrant a very serious change in the entire DM and GM, IMO.

 As many would admit our AH DM was state-of-the-art many years ago, but is lagging behind the times nowadays. Therefore, implementing the actual effects of bullet hits that doesn't amount up to the total "destruction" of the specific part would definately be a step in the right direction.

 Let's assume one or two a 20mm HE round impacts the rudder of a flying airplane - in AH2 this would not be enough damage to qualify as 'rudder destroyed', but in real life the explosive effects will have torn apart a considerable amount of the rudder as to make it much less effective than a fully intact surface. The same applies to a variety of situations such as ailerons or elevator surfaces.

 But the problem is, our DM doesn't have much internal components modelled in, as well as our GM allows us to hit enemy planes approximately twice as much further out than real life distances - in some cases, even three, four times that. If partial damage and loss of effectiveness is to be modelled in without some revision in the general gunnery modelling and its effecting factors, then logically the game would encourage some serious spraying shi*. Just spray some ammo load out to the plane in front of you, and if it hits wing surfaces and such, it would cause more drag and deterr the effectiveness of the flight controls, making the target plane a much more vulnerable and easy target than it is now.


 
 Therefore, if 'partial damage' is to be implemented, I contend that some more factors such as ammunition belting should also be modelled in - for instance, tracer rounds, AP rounds, and cannon rounds have different ballisitics qualities at further distances. Now, the ballistics don't matter much when firing range is very close, but when the distance is further out the difference does kick in.

 Currently, AH uses a 'generic' type of bullet that has both AP and HE properties, and only the tracer rounds have different ballistics qualities. In other words, aside from every 5th round fired, all the other rounds have exactly the same ballistics.

 Now, in reality, most on-board weapons had mixed ammunition belts, for instance the MG151/20 being:

* HET - AP - HE - AP - HET - AP - HE ....

 In AH2, all rounds are generic except the tracer:

* G - G - G - G - T  ...


 In AH2, if you fire a MG151/20 at a target out at 600yards, and aim well enough to hit with the "G(Generic)" rounds (not counting the effects of dispersion) you will hit 4 out of 5 rounds fired, as all the "G" rounds will hit and the "T" round misses.

 However, in reality, If you aim good enough to land a AP round at that distance...
 
* HET - AP - HE - AP - HET ....

 ..only two out of five fired will hit, as the HE and HET rounds will have different ballistics qualities.
 
 In short, by modelling correct ammunition sequences to the guns I expect as much as a general 30~50% drop on accuracy in shooting over 500 yards distance. An added bonus could be, with a more refined DM the effects of different types of rounds (AP/HE) will draw some more variety in what happens in firing situations.



 In this case, the "partial damage" would be a welcome addition.

Offline Knegel

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Partial damage
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2007, 06:50:59 AM »
Hi,

i dont think it should get to complicated. Someone need to program all this in a balanced way. A to complicated DM dont will add much to the game, at the end the plane cant fly or can, the bullet hit or dont hit, who will know if a HE or a AP round did hit?? In theory it sounds good, but imho thats to complicated, but of course, when we spend more money, there will be some people who program this. ;) But probably many will need new puters to compute this.

But some smal additions would be nice, like a drag increasement after i see holes in my plane and specialy a smaler Wingitp-graphic(it looks strange to land a FW190 with one half wing) would be nice.

The engine should start to lose power when the oil is empty, not simply die. Similar it could be when the engine itself(not the oil) get some hits, but of course then the power decreasement should start right away.  

Greetings,

Knegel

Offline Tilt

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Partial damage
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2007, 09:28:03 AM »
I suppose as a some parts approach break points we could have some noises to warn of oncoming doom if any more damage is sustained.

Control surfaces and gear could just drop a notch  or suffer responce lag at #% damage....ripping off if we are travelling too fast for this form of deployment.

engine and pilot is already graduated................

seems we can even fly on fire for a short while...........
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Offline tedrbr

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Partial damage
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2007, 02:56:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK
Currently the engine blows the oil all over the canopy. Half way damage could just splash some oil out.


Probably a bad example.  A cracked block or blown oil line is going to pump out oil --- all of it eventually, not just some ---- the rate may vary, but the end result is pretty much the same: a seized motor.

I think when you are dealing with a game that still supports dial-up users, you've got to balance that kind of level of detail against the throughput you are supporting and limited too.  Also, there is the minimum computing power you are supporting for the customer base.

Also, since this is a game, and not a flight simulator, you need to balance the gameplay against the level of detail you are trying to achieve.  We don't all have full scale simulators to sit in, or feel the motion of the planes we are flying (I've flown a bit, and ride motorcycles a lot, and computer games and simulations just can't capture that aspect of reality), or spend months in training prior to deployment to a squadron in a war zone.  

As often as I've ditched in damaged planes and with pilot wounds, I've no issue with the level of damage detail in the game.  It's certainly much better than 95% of the games out there with health bars and power ups.

Offline Spikes

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Partial damage
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2007, 03:34:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oleg
"The partial damage would affect the plane's handling in smaller steps" - exactly how losing wingtips works :) You can fragment DM further, i.e. before losing wingtip you will lose half of wingtip, but it wouldnt change concept.

btw, i dont say it bad, i just said it already partially implemented.


mostly if your wingtip gets shot-off you are done. He is saying if you were to get a hurri 1 and work your way up a B-17s wing it would slowly break off into small pieces. Rather than hitting a b17 with 3 20mm rounds and magically have a huge piece of wing come flying at you.
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