Author Topic: Firefly Armor (Read 1856 times)

Puck · « **on:** May 03, 2007, 09:56:58 AM »

I was putting around in an IL-2 last night, and ended up putting about 1 rocket and an entire clip of 40mm into a firefly (this is exaggeration; figure 25-30% of the 40mm hit, if that). All I managed to do is take out a track and the engine.

I figure there are three possibilities:

1. Firefly armor really is that good
2. The IL-2 isn't as good as its reputation
3. I suck

Of the three the last is most likely, but I'm curious now. I've had all kinds of trouble killing M4s in an Il-2.

Krusty · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2007, 09:58:27 AM »

IL2 has 23mm guns, Hurr2D has 40mm guns, but no rockets.

EDIT: Oh, and I was in a firefly with an IL2 repeatedly strafing me, over and over. He died (I shot him, he crashed, something) and came back twice... He never did kill me, a camping tiger did.

E25280 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 03, 2007, 10:11:05 AM »

Might be related -- heard several people complaining that something seemed different about the strength of the IL2 guns. They claimed to be unable to damage any tank anymore, and another guys said he put 15 rounds of 23mm into an aircraft that went on its merry way . . .

Personally, I have not noticed any trouble, but I don't play as often as some.

So, good armor or weapon damage glitch? Curious as to whether you are just not noticing a similar problem with other targets.

Xasthur · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2007, 10:38:43 AM »

I unloaded an entire ammo load of a 190 A8 (with the 30mm load-out) into a Sherman today and got nothing.

I don't think I even tracked it.

I definately saw big sprites on the tracks, hit it front and back, side to side and on top.

Nothing.

I then proceeded to put 15 or 16 37mm rounds from a Yak9T into it...still nothing.

I definately hit with a large percentage of all the ammunition. Short bursts at the calibrated cannon distance repeatedly... In the end a tank killed it and I got the assist! lol.

The guy came back and tried to camp the base from inside a hangar, so I flew a Hurricane IID through it and killed him

Bet he wasn't expecting that

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2007, 11:23:46 AM »

The 30mm on the 190a8 are not AP rounds. The only thing you'll do is track it. If you're lucky. 20mm do jack vs tanks, you probably know.

Only 2 planes in this game have AP tank rounds: The Hurr2D and the IL2.

No other plane should be able to kill a tank, if I recall. Not 30mm, not 37mm, not 20mm. If you do you got REALLY lucky.

IL2 and Hurr2d only, and the latter really sucks.

Puck · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2007, 11:27:23 AM »

No, the HO dweebs always die, but I can't kill ANYTHING on the ground with an IL2. Well. Maybe an M3. I get "kills", but only because I put a bunch of cannon rounds in it before someone comes along and lays an egg on them. I've tried firing ONLY cannon to make sure the sprites were cannon as well. The only way I can get a real kill is to drop bombs/rockets on the target. Guns are useless against armor for me, at least. The best I've ever done is tracking a tank and MAYBE knocking out the engine, but that takes ten passes and all the cannon rounds.

Not sure if that's a reflection on the armor, the gun, or the driver. Just an observation.

AKDream, the scum sucking weasel, has killed my IL2 with an M4 main gun out past 1k. It's embarrassing. Makes me wish *I* were a scum sucking weasel!

Karnak · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2007, 11:55:19 AM »

MG108 30mm and NS-37 37mm on Yak-9T are both HE and shouldn't have any effect on a tank.

If we had the IL-2 with the NS-37s, then it would be with AP ammo on that aircraft.

Xasthur · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2007, 12:07:45 PM »

Ah, I see.

Is it an oddity then that I got a kill on a Sherman whilst making two quick passes on it as I was RTBing in a damaged G6? Sure, I did not finish it, a friendly tank killed it as I was on final, but i still got the kill for two passes with 3 x 20mm.

If the 20mm rounds don't do anything, is it logical that I get a kill for it?

Also, I seem to recall killing a few Panzers and I think I even got a Tiger in the Yak 9T. No assisstance from friendlies with the tanks either, I was the only one defending a base from some GV porkers.

Should this be possible with no help and no ord?

Krusty · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2007, 12:45:21 PM »

Basically you stole the kill

You didn't do anything to it, but you "hit it" and that was taken into account when the server awarded a kill.

EDIT: P.S. There's no way in Hades a Yak9T can kill a Tigr. It won't even hurt a panzer in most circumstances.

zorstorer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2007, 01:04:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Basically you stole the kill

You didn't do anything to it, but you "hit it" and that was taken into account when the server awarded a kill.

EDIT: P.S. There's no way in Hades a Yak9T can kill a Tigr. It won't even hurt a panzer in most circumstances.

Yep I think it was Pyro who said the tracks can soak up ALOT of damage. So firing those big cannon (30mm, 37mm) will award you quite a bit of "damage points" on the tank but never really kill it outright. Maybe that Tiger flipped over or he decided to tower and you got the kill? Other than bombs, the rockets off of the 190F8 (PB1's) are the only way I have truely killed a tiger in game. They (the PB1's) are the only rockets to have true HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) warheads as far as I know. The Russians had some HEAT rockets but we dont have them in game

They are the BRS-82 and -132, we only have the RS-82 and -132, standard HE warheads. They also had the ROSF-82 and -132 rockets that had high a explosive fragmentation warhead. It would be nice to get more rocket options in game

Xasthur · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2007, 01:09:14 PM »

Haha, yeah I know I stole the kill

I was just wondering how that happens.

Zestorer provided a logical explanation for it though, as they were low, side-on attacks, so the tracks must have soaked up the damage.

Seems logical with the tiger explanation too.

I'll keep this in mind in the future

Oleg · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2007, 01:11:10 PM »

I dont know if 23mm was changed in latest patches or not, but historically IL-2 with 23mm VYas couldnt significantly hurt medium tanks. It works only agains unarmored and slightly armored vehicles like light tanks.
23mm's effectiveness against armors in AH is gameplay feature mostly.

P.S. IL-2 need PTABs (anti tank cumulative aviabombs) which was most effective IL-2's anti tank weapon.

Spikes · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2007, 02:27:18 PM »

I go into say TT with a a6m2 or spit1 and strafe, usally you get assists but you always seem to get a kill or two.

Puck · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2007, 02:38:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Oleg
I dont know if 23mm was changed in latest patches or not, but historically IL-2 with 23mm VYas couldnt significantly hurt medium tanks. It works only agains unarmored and slightly armored vehicles like light tanks.
23mm's effectiveness against armors in AH is gameplay feature mostly.

P.S. IL-2 need PTABs (anti tank cumulative aviabombs) which was most effective IL-2's anti tank weapon.

So...the best tank buster on the eastern front couldn't bust tanks? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering how it got such a wicked reputation and why Comrade Joe would insist on pushing IL-2 production at the expense of fighters that used the same engine. Bombs and rockets?

Lusche · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2007, 03:59:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Puck
So...the best tank buster on the eastern front couldn't bust tanks? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering how it got such a wicked reputation and why Comrade Joe would insist on pushing IL-2 production at the expense of fighters that used the same engine. Bombs and rockets?

There was much more to hit than only tanks. Gun emplacements, troop concentrations, command posts, light tanks, halftracks, trucks and the plethora of german horse-drawn transport carts...
The wicked reputation came from numbers, heavy armor that enabled it to withstand severe damage by ack & fighters, the ability to wreak havoc on those targets I mentioned above. And last but not least the fierce determination of it's pilots...

And like Oleg pointed out, shooting with guns was only one method to bust tanks, and actually a quite rare one too (when looking at the whole war). For example many people tend to overestimate numbers & overall impact of the 37mm equipped Ju87G, but in fact only around 210 were build from dezember 1943 to july 1944, compared to about 5000 "conventional" Ju 87 versions, not to forget all those ground attack versions of the Fw 190.